Welcome to the Whakapapa Club Forums where you will find a wealth of information.  You are free to browse the forums, but if you wish to comment or add requests, you must register, which is quick and easy and you can even use your Facebook Login.

Once you have signed up and posted either a reply or a new post it will not appear in the forums until it has been approved – this is to stop spam from appearing and keeping our Whakapapa Club Forums relavent for Whakapapa only.

If someone helps you don’t forget to acknowlege them.

He rakatira no Kati Kahukunu  

  RSS
Manawa_Timu_Ngaati_Kahungunu
(@manawa_timu_ngaati_kahungunu)
Active Member

Kia ora koutou

I'm looking for any information about a Kati Kahukunu Rakatira
by the name of "TAPU" he was killed by te rakitauwheke from Kai Tahu..

any information anyone may have would faaatastic!!

Tena mo te aui 🙂

Quote
Posted : 01 December, 2007 5:39 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

Kia ora koe,

Kua haere ano koe ki te rapu i nga korero kei roto i te puranga niupepa reo Maori (Maori language newspaper archives) i te ipurangi nei? Tena pea he korero kei roto hei whakamarama ko wai ia.

He patai iti noa taku, no Ngati Kahungunu i te Ika a Maui ia ne ra?

Ma nga tupuna koe e awhi, e tiaki, e arataki.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04 December, 2007 2:29 am
pepe OWC
(@pepe-owc)
Active Member

Kia ora Manawa,
I recognize tou mita. Tapu was supposed to have bragged that his waka was superior to the new whare built by Kati Kuri. Insulted, Rakaitauheke sunk his teeth into the prow of the waka which was perceived as him eating Tapu's tipuna. In the battle that ensued Tapu was killed. Kati Kuri decided to beat a hasty reteat and this is how they came to migrate to the Marlborough Sounds.
I would recommend the book 'Takitimu' for the histories of Kati Kahukunu which should be available at the library.
Hope this helps.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07 December, 2007 12:40 am
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

I think the English only speakers of Ngati Kahungunu would be able to assist more if the name of their tribe was spelt the way they are used to seeing it in English. (no te mea, ina kore te tangata e mohio ki te korero Maori, me pewhea ia e mohio ai ki te ahukahuka i te ingoa o tona iwi ina tuhingia taua ingoa i roto i te mita o tetehi atu iwi?). Mena i pataihia te patai i roto i te reo, kei te pai, no te mea, e mohio ana nga kaikorero katoa ki te ahukahuka i nga mita o ngetehi atu iwi. Ko te tangata e kuware ana ki te reo, e kuware ana hoki taua tangata ki nga mita o ia iwi o ia iwi. Ehake te whakamahinga o nga reo a-iwi i te raruraru, ko te raruraru ke ia ko te kuwaretanga o te hunga kaore ra e taea ana te korero Maori.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07 December, 2007 1:26 am
Upokoruru OWC
(@upokoruru-owc)
Active Member

quote:


I think the English only speakers of Ngati Kahungunu would be able to assist more if the name of their tribe was spelt the way they are used to seeing it in English. (no te mea, ina kore te tangata e mohio ki te korero Maori, me pewhea ia e mohio ai ki te ahukahuka i te ingoa o tona iwi ina tuhingia taua ingoa i roto i te mita o tetehi atu iwi?). Mena i pataihia te patai i roto i te reo, kei te pai, no te mea, e mohio ana nga kaikorero katoa ki te ahukahuka i nga mita o ngetehi atu iwi. Ko te tangata e kuware ana ki te reo, e kuware ana hoki taua tangata ki nga mita o ia iwi o ia iwi. Ehake te whakamahinga o nga reo a-iwi i te raruraru, ko te raruraru ke ia ko te kuwaretanga o te hunga kaore ra e taea ana te korero Maori.


........ignore him.What he doesn't realise is that Kaai Tahu brought a lot of Kati Kahukunu (-Kahukunu-matakirau)'blood' lines with them, although they retained a limited stable that usually starts with Kahukunu, Rokomaipapa or Rakaihikuroa who is shown to be coupled with Uetakataka (-Huetangatanga).The most prominent of these was Tutekawa who was also a Kati Hawea-Waitaha, although his Kati Kahukunu whakapapa either traces his desecnt from Papauma, Taewha or Taraia no one is is wholley certain on this particular matter.I think it is from Taihekaro, an offspring of Rokomaipapa or perhaps Papauma, one of Rakaihikuroa's spouses.
Tapu was also siad to be affiliated with Kati Ira so he probably had strong links in the southern Wairarapa.I will look for more information regarding this soon.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16 December, 2007 10:35 am
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

quote:


ignore him.


Its just common sense. I wouldn't expect an English speaker to know what I meant if I said kiaka in preference to taha (calibash) since kiaka isn't a word that an English speaking Maori would know - but taha is. And even amonst speakers of Maori there are people out there who wouldn't know what a kiaka is (another word is nehenehe).

There are many more examples.

If you use English then use the official names of people and places. So that means I have to call Aorangi "Aoraki" in English since that is the correct name in English.

You can't have your cake and it too.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16 December, 2007 6:33 pm
Upokoruru OWC
(@upokoruru-owc)
Active Member

Wrong again Newman (Taneariki).
We who can whakapapa back to Kahukunu
(-Kahungunu)recall our tipuna by that name and thus that is our business not yours so stop the pedantic antics.
Manawa, the following information you should print off and save for later reference. It does not totally prove the identity of the figure Tapu, but it does show the inter-iwi complexity and political context of Rakaitauheke and Maru.It further qualifies the idea that Tapu is a significant figure who may have been part of the Kati Mamoe, with Kati Kahukunu links, that became incorporated with Kati Kuri during their settlement of the Whanganui-a-Tara area before they left circa.1690 A.D:
Rawiri Te Maire Tau in 'Nga Pikituroa o Ngai Tahu'(p.190-191)outlines the Rakaitauheke/Tapu tradition which culminates in the Waiwhetu battle near present day Petone. Tau mentions that Maru's (Maru-kaitatea) "father and brothers-in-law of Ngati Kahungunu" had been captured during the battle. So who was Maru's wife that was linked to the Kati Kahukunu?We know that Maru had two wives who were sisters named Te Waipuha and Rokomaiwhaia from Kati Iraturoto and Rakitane thus this is the reason why we are told Maru was anxious to go to the southern Wairarapa to fetch his family before his Kati Kuri people crossed the strait-Te Moana-a-Raukawa to Te Wahipounamu.
This should give us a clue as to the tribal identity of Tapu, plus the fact that Maru's wives were the gr.grand-daughters of Te Aomatarahi, a Kati Iraturoto ariki who fought alongside Taraia and thus probably married into the Kati Kahukunu.
Next, Tau tells us that amongst the slain on the Waiwhetu battle field were two rakatira called Kahumataroa and Mareinaka, the children of Tahumataa. Now this is rather interesting because they would of belong to the over-all Kai Tahu matrix of Kaai Tuhaitara who would of been living at Hataitai at the time.This was some years after Tutekawa attacked Tuahuriri at his Hataitai pa.Undoubtedly both Kati Kuri and Kaai Tuhaitara were kinship iwi and allies.
Kahumataroa is the father of Tukorero, principle wife of Tutekawa, Hinetewai, a wife of Tuahuriri, and Hineteraraku. Kahumataroa and Marainaka's mother was Mania, a Ngati Kahungunu figure who comes from Taihekaro, the offspring of Rokomaipapa and Ruapani.The fact that Ngati Kahungunu don't have a Taihekaro is of some interest.
So when Maru turns around to the Ngati Kahungunu prisoners and says:
"E kai koe ia a au, kua kai hoki au i a koe.", i.e, that in-effect an exchange that Maru's inlaws should eat the two bodies of Marainaka and Kahumataroa.However, the interpretaion offered by Tau(p.191) does not go far enough because Maru or the tradition suggests that the Ngati Kahungunu "inlaws" should actually eat their relatives since Kahumataroa and his brother Marainaka appear to be linked, not only to Kaai Tahu and Kati Mamoe but to Ngati Kahungunu.
Another thing that should be stated is that Kati Kuri, like Kaai Tuhaitara, had strong Kati Mamoe links whilst they were in the North Island. For example, Maru's mother Hinepaka and her famous brother Te Kaue were from Kati Mamoe through their father Rahui. Their mother was named Tuwhakarau, but I do not know her whakapapa.
It is also through Rakaitauheke's mother Tanemoehau another Kati Mamoe ancestral connection is made.Rakaitauheke's sibling Rakitawhiao had Rakipaka who in turn was the parent of Manawa who was killed by Tukiauau, the cousin of Tutekawa. Manawa had married Maru's sister Te Apai.Manawa's son Te Ruahikihiki married the two daughter's of Te Kaue thus the Kati Mamoe link was kept intact.
Now, this Rahui I mentioned above was the son of Paeko and Whakairikura.Paeko had two siblings named Tu and Tapu, all three been the children of Wharetotara and Teaukume.
Note that Beattie was told that Rahui was killed in a fight called by Kai Tahu authorities "Tewha-parare" in the N.Island:
"Tewha-parare is the name of a fight in the North Island where Rahui, a Kati Mamoe ancestor, was killed as well as the two chiefs after whom the fight is named. Rahui was the hakoro (father) of Hine-paka, and she married Puraho and begat Maru the fighter.”
(Beattie, 'Traditions and legends of the South Island Maori'p.198). Tewha and Parare were the name of the Kati Mamoe chiefs killed in the fight and they are shown in my whakapapa notes as the two brothers of Rahui.
Surmise: If this is the same Tapu, who is the uncle of Rahui, that Rakaitauheke had killed then the former must of been a generation older than the later.It may be that Tapu was involved in the same conflict known as Tewha-Parare.Although the Beattie notes does not state the actual location of the battle nor who were the victors,(no doubt such a tradition was part of the Kati Kuri oral inventory so this iwi must of defeated Rahui's people and intermarried with them),Rakaitauheke's role was assigned further back in time than Maru's role it seems nearly a generation later.Remember Rakaitauheke would of been approaching about forty years of age when Maru was born!
Another note in Beattie manuscripts claims that Rahui was a "pure Kati Mamoe".So this logically concurs that Rahui's uncle Tapu cannot have been Ngati Kahungunu or otherwise, but the later statement may be of no consequence as such.
Further, it is possible that the Maru aspect of the tradition may have occurred later in time since he would of been at most a child when Tapu was killed;Rakaitauheke was an uncle to Puraho (father of Maru)and Hinepaka, the daughter of Rahui,the mother of Maru.
Now, Tipene (Steven) O'Regan put forward a whakapapa I found in a copy of 'Te Tau Ihu-o-te-waka'(it might be for Land Court evidence)which shows Maru's direct descent from Kuri which bi-passes any generation that connects him and others with Rahui and the Kati Mamoe.O'Regan achieves this by ommitting two generations which contradicts what was said and recorded in earlier texts such as Beattie. Oncemore in 'Nga Pikituroa o Ngai Tahu'(p.238-239)Tau refers to Tikao's statements that Hinepaka (Hinepaaka)is the mother of Maru Kaitatea.However Tau goes on to claim Hinepaka was the daughter of Hinekura and Pahirua which is different from Rahui and Tuwhakarau been the parents of Hinepaka.Tau references this particuar whakapapa to 'Tikao Talks' by Herries-Beattie, although I cannot recall this been included in the actual text!Does any body recognise the said whakapapa mentioned by Tau in 'Tikao Talks'?
Secondly, I have not seen any other whakapapa that makes a Hinepaka the daughter of Pahirua and Hinekura. Hinekura was of Kati Hawea origin whilst Pahirua was the son of Tuhaitara and Marukore thus a brother of Huirapa and Tahumataa.Pahirua and Hinekura's children are Rakihikaia, Kahukiao,Hineteuru and Koroua.Hineteuru's son was Tuterakiapiapi. Kahukiao was the first wife of Tuahuriri and had the famous Tanetiki.Tuhawaiki's grandfather Honekai was a descendant of this Tanetiki.Another important Kati Hawea
(Kati Mamoe/Waitaha) link in Kati Kuri whakapapa is through Hineteawheka who married Rakiwhakaputa and had two children named Hinekakai who went on to become the principle wahine of Turakautahi, and Te Ropuake who coupled with Makoo the child of Hinepaka and Puraho and thus a sibling to Maru.
It would seem to me that latter Ngai Tahu authorities may have attempted to reconfigure the early principle Kati Kuri phyletic links with those that relate to Kaai Tuhaitara instead of the more direct Kati mamoe lines of Rahui et-al.

Edited by - Upokoruru on Dec 26 2007 5:48:02 PM

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16 December, 2007 8:28 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

quote:


Wrong again Tane.


I'm sorry you're the one that is completely wrong here.

quote:


We who can whakapapa back to Kahukunu
(-Kahungunu)recall our tipuna by that name and thus that is our business not yours.


I also whakapapa back to the Takitimu peoples and that is not the name I remember for Kahungunu or Ngati Kahungunu.

See, at least I use the proper spellings as accepted in English by the Takitimu people. It would be another story if I said Takitumu which would make it wrong even though it is the preferred pronounciation in the region that I'm from.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16 December, 2007 9:16 pm
Nani OWC
(@nani-owc)
Eminent Member

Ko tane ko upoko, whakapiripiri ne? ko te wā ma kōrua ki te whakapiripono, kati āu kōrua whawhai! ka huri āu ki āku reo tuatahi. I would like to see Tane & upoko unite. You two need to weave your knowledge together, just think what you two could achieve.
Ma to tātou tūpuna manaaki ia kōrua ia mātou ia tātou hoki.
Arohanui
Nani

PS: For just this post I wont include my signature whakatauki because it doesnt suit my kōrero.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18 December, 2007 7:03 am
Upokoruru OWC
(@upokoruru-owc)
Active Member

It is also of some interest that Rakaitauheke is given as the name of a Rangitane pa in the Wairarapa;prominent mention is given to the "Te Upoko -o-Rakaitauheke" pa in Elsdon Best's 'Land of Tara'(part:III.p.53)where the Ngati Ira under Te Whakumu attack the settlements of Rangitane and Ngati Mamoe (-Whatumamoe) in the southern Wairarapa.Best goes to say that eventually the 'upoko-o-Rakaitauheke' was taken and its chief "Rakaitauheke" was killed.Which contradicts Kaai Tahu tradition of Rakaitauheke who was one of their most able warriors, "a real Wallace", who fought against the Rangitane and Kati Mamoe in northern Te Wahipounamu.He is also mentioned as residing at the Hataitai pa when Te Huataki and others were "blown" over.Rakaitauheke, like Te Huataki, were given two of Tiotio's daughter's in marriage to maintain peace.However,I believe this Kaai Tahu story to be essentially 'reflexive'.
Now, Elsdon Best's account of Rakaitauheke's role in the Ngati Ira
(either Ngati Ira-kaiputahi or were they really Kati Ira-turoto?)invasion of the Wairarapa is somewhat spurious and as such is pointed out by Jock McEwen, who I believe is a more reliable source of collected accounts and traditions regarding Rangitane and related iwi in that district. So Best's account of Rakitauheke must be examined more closely.After-all in the same text 'The Land of Tara', Best also gives us 'The story of Tutekawa:a Cannibal feast and Poetical justice',poetical justice indeed!
His account of Tutekawa's migration I have examined and is , in short,of dubious origin.It contains some contradictions and may have been pulled out of the magician's hat in the Lore of the 'Whare-Wananga', since in the so called "hallowed house" (Percy-Smith)we also get the whakapapa of Tutekawa's wife Tukorero which is totally unrecognisable excepting the name Whatu-mamoe.As David simmons once remarked about the 'Lore of the Whare Wananga','how can someone else know more about someone else's iwi more than they do???", especailly when it comes to the Moriori!
What can be verified to some degree is that the Best account of the Te Whakumu-Ngati Ira incursion of the Wairarapa and Rangitane rohe would of occurred about the time Tutekawa lived since there is mention of his contempories,the Rangitane ariki Te Rerewa and other Rangitane nobles who migrated to the Tau-Ihu-a-Te Waka lands of the S.Island.It is held by some that Te Huataki and his people were a Rangitane related vanguard who first settled in the Wairau (in Marlborough) district before Te Rerewa et-al.
Experience has shown me by all comparisons Tutekawa lived circa.1650-1705 A.D.
It will pay to review Jock McEwen's 'Rangitane' text for any significance of Rakaitauheke.

Edited by - Upokoruru on Dec 18 2007 2:18:05 PM

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18 December, 2007 2:04 pm
Upokoruru OWC
(@upokoruru-owc)
Active Member

Looking through McEwen's 'Rangitane' text we see that the Te Whakumu's migration to the Wairarapa more or less is reflected in the elsdon Best series of events.
McEwen further brings to our attention that Te Whakumu must of been a contemporary of Te Rerewa, Te Whakamana and Te Rangitawhanga. Te Rangitawhanga I may recall arrived in the Wairarapa lake district with his people in a number of waka, one been named "Makawhiu" a variation of the name Makawhiua both names used by Kaai Tahu.This is the name of the infamous 'desolator' war-canoe used by Moki and the Kaai Tuhaitara.We also know that Te Rerewa and his Rangitane compnaions took this vessel in lieu of their Wairarapa estates to Te Wahipounamu.Kaai Tahu sources state that the Makawhiua was built from a totara cut down in the Wairarapa. The common connection between both traditions is the Kati Iraturoto and the Wairarapa.One would assume then that Moki acquired the Makawhiua via the Rangitane who settled in the Wairau-Te Tau Ihu regions.
Now,I will liberally make references to McEwen's work. Looking back to Rakaitau(w)heke in the Te Whakumu narrative we see that Rakaitauheke is amongst those killed in the pa "Te upoko-o-Rakaitauheke' (p.72.).
Next we turn to p.74 where Rakaitauheke is briefly mentioned as the husband of Tamaariki and Hineterangi's grand-daughter. Her name is not given nor Rakaitauheke's whakapapa except he is simply referred to as the Rangitane chief killed by Te Whakumu.Perhaps then there were two men known by the name Rakaitauheke who lived about the same time and same region?
Anyway,Hineterangi was the sister of Rakaiwerohia whose son was Te Rangitawhanga from Te Mata (-east of Havelock North).These people the descendants of the Ngati Ira ariki te Aomatarahi.All the same it is curious that Rakaitauheke's whakapapa is not shown or referred to, but McEwen does mention that the Ngati Ira and Ngai Tara where living around Waimarama region and that some of "...their relatives under the tribal name Ngai Tahu had moved to Takapau and had intermarried with the Rangitane and Aitanaga a Whata of that place."(p.74).
O.k, now what "Ngai tahu" people is he actually talking about since there were are still some who affiliate with that name-sake in parts of the East-Coast?I am tempted to put forward the idea that this was the descendants of Tahu-potiki since we know that the "Aitanga-a-Whata" are the same iwi that became incorporated within the Kati Kuri, the first Kaai Tahu migration, to Te Wahipounamu.It will pay to recall on this point that when Waitai rejected his nephew's Maru-kaikatea's authority as he felt 'betrayed' by him and hence the Kati Kuri alliance started to weaken after they defeated Ngai Tara he took with him a section of Kati Whata to the Otago Peninsula and finally to Murihiku. We also know that the only two surivivors of the Mokomoko massacre where Waitai and his army where killed by Tutemakohu and his Kati Mamoe warriors were named Tamakino and Wapo who were the brother's of Moki's wife Marewa.Marewa and her brothers are descended from Whata (-Wata).
Now, part of the clue of the Waitai migration from the main body of Kati Kuri to the Otago Heads is the name of his waka:"Te Tau-o-Tarawhata".Tarawhata I believe is the full rendering of Whata's name.Native Land court records I have reviewed from the East-Coast show Whata and his descendants.He is usually said to be a descendant of Paikea's son Pouheni although McEwen puts foward a whakapapa that shows Whata's descent from the Uenuku and the Tahatiti section of Toi (p.28).And in one related whakapapa record his name is given as "Tarawhata". Kaai Tahu sources usually place Uenuku or Paikea above his name. Some of Whata's descendants married into Ngati Kahungunu and Rangitane.
Conclusion:Rakaitauheke in Rangitane and Wairarapa sources does to prove that he was killed by Te Whakumu because he is not a central figure in the over-all tradition. What we do know is that he was probably an older contemporary of Tutekawa and hence would of lived in the same period as Te Whakumu and Te Rerewa. Whether or not he was actually amongst Maru, Te Kaue and other prominent Kati Kuri figures in Te Wahipounamu is a matter of keen debate.However, since he is often mentioned as a central character in Kaai Tahu lore I tend to think that he left Whanganui-a-Tara and later lived and fought in the South Island but may have crossed back over to the Wairarapa to confront Tapu as told in the Beattie text 'Traditions and Legends of the South Island Maori'.

Edited by - Upokoruru on Dec 21 2007 09:43:28 AM

Edited by - Upokoruru on Dec 23 2007 10:26:13 PM

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20 December, 2007 5:29 pm
pepe OWC
(@pepe-owc)
Active Member

Kia ora teina,
There are at least three people called Tutekawa. When you check the timelines you will find that the Tutekawa on your whakapapa who was supposed to have been killed by Moki etc could not possibly be the same one who was said to have commited the raruraru in the north island. This is simply a story concocted later to give the invaders a take to come down whereas as I stated elsewhere they were driven out of every place they stayed and had their eye out for the possession of the pounamu and the lands.
Check it out.
Mere kirihimete.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20 December, 2007 10:08 pm
Upokoruru OWC
(@upokoruru-owc)
Active Member

"three Tuteakawa"? why stop there?
How about Tutekawa-a-Kuhere who killed the Waitaha/Kati Mamoe ariki Whetuki at Waiharakeke (Lilburn area between Lake Hauroko and the Waiau river in Murihiku.)?This Tutekawa who is obviously the son of Kuhere was a conetmporary of Te Matauira who was the same generation as Takaoteraki, the gr.grandson of the first and most well known Tutekawa, the son of Maika!The Tutekawa you and I come from and whom I talk about.
Or there si the Ngati Kahungunu Native Land Court Minute Book records which talk about Tutekawa the son of Rangiwaho who by all accounts came from the Maraetaha area and would of lived a generation or so after Tutekawa o Maika. Is this the same tipuna?Probably not, but there are a few similarities within the general context. Although Rongowhakaata Halbert would like to think so, he just adapted the well established traditions of Tutekawa in the S.Island and give it a different historical preclude that would appaer to fit East-Coast-Tairawhiti accounts. Infact the whakapapa table given in his tome 'Horouta' for the first Tutekawa is very spurious indeed and contains inner contradictions.For this I would not quickly point the finger at Halbert as I suspect, once again, that it may be a construct from the 'Lore of the Whare Wananga'.
another candidate perhaps is this one I found in some records obatined by the Ngaai Tahu Whakapapa Unit in Christchurch; information submitted from Hohepa Te Kauru of Tauranga B.O.P which also has a Tutekawa the son of Rangiwaho, the son of Tamanuhiri who is from Te Aowhauru. Tamanuhiri of Te Aowhauru is the figure placed by Halbert in his version of events regarding the Whataroa massacre in Turanganui.He adopted the Kati Kuri tradition of Te Kurawhaia, Tutekawa's (of Maika) gr.grandfather, and unwittingly makes Tamanuhiri the son of Te Aowhauru a figure I am not familiar with) without realising that the Hohepa Kauru whakapapa connects him to Tutekawa of Rangiwaho.So this implies that Tamanuhiri, a Kati Kuri (Kai Tahu) figure ends up fighting Tutekawa's ancestor and his tribe.Halbert simply been unaware that in the correct tradition that Te Kurawhaia was infact the tipuna of Tutekawa. Confused?
Well it is part of the internal inconsistencies when you look a wee bit closer to these texts.for example the Court decided to rule that in 1925 regarding another whakapapa similar to the one Kauru gave evidence for in 1904 that it was wrong, "rejected" :The Court also ruled that "Tutekawa returned to the N.Island"!Bizzare indeed!Since this is not countenanced by any Maori tradition.It serves to show that the Court needed to resolve a mismatch of identities so they simply said he "must" of gone back to the N.Island to procreate a whole new line of descent.
Quite simply pepe I have examined all the relavant records and traditions to determine who is who and why.The Tutekawa whakapapa is one of the more well known ones in the S.Island ; he is the son of Maika who is from Tutemanaha, who is the child of Te Kurawhaia
(Te Kurawhaiana) and so on back to Pohaitaka and back to Hawea-i-teraki who lived 40 generations ago and then finally to Rakaihautu who founded this land nearly a thousand years ago.
As regards "conspiracy" theories ; well where does it start and end?A conspiracy for whom and what, and whom is it answerable for? As Rawiri Te Maire Tau once said regarding the English Journalist Arthur Carrington's idea of a Kaai Tahu conspiracy "to conceal certain facts", and Tau writes:"Carrington was ignorant of Ngai Tahu's prosiac subtleties. Carrington's mistrust of whakapapa led him to him to create a theory of conspiracy, rather than deal with the nature of the tradition" ('Nga Pikituroa o Ngai Tahu'p.277).
And that pepe is where I stand; "...the nature of the tradition". If there is NO other tradition that contradicts the one at hand then we must either fall silent or inter-construct the symbols etc, inorder to understand better the over-all tribal connotation that is been-being communicated.
Once more, I know that Tuahuriri was a younger contemporary of Tutekawa and that Moki and Turakautahi was the same generation as Te Rakitamau's children.Because I have compared and analysised many whakapapa over the years and one of my methods is to search out the descendants and run parallel checks with other related lines from a common atavistic source.The Tutekawa and Kaai Tahu ones work out very well in this regard. Don't be fooled by the mention of 'Hikaororoa' who was with Tutekawa and his hapu when they were prepared to attack Tuahuriri's pa.He is sometimes referred to as the "son of Hikaororoa' , because Hikaororoa (or Hingaororoa as recalled by the Whatu-mamoe amongst the Ngati Kahungunu)was a famous Kati Mamoe tipuna who lived some 6 generations before Tutekawa. What the tradition entails is that this was the hapu or aitanga of Hikaororoa who joined forces with Tutekawa whilst in Whanganui-a-Tara.
As for Rawiri Te Maire Tau's chronological assessment on p.290 , it is wrong for two things; first, the Tupai whakapapa appears to be missing a few generations.Why this is?I don't know.Secondly, Tau's inclination to consider that each generation comes about on an average of 15 years is not substantial. He does nottake into consideration of generational over-lap because the many siblings from one generation and that some of these women must of been having children right up to their natural term. Arki and other important male figures would sometimes 'marry' women half their age or sometimes women twice thier age. So the average of 20 years per generation is still the norm I believe as it takes into these aforementioned considerations.

Edited by - Upokoruru on Dec 22 2007 08:24:20 AM

ReplyQuote
Posted : 21 December, 2007 10:12 pm
Manawa_Timu_Ngaati_Kahungunu
(@manawa_timu_ngaati_kahungunu)
Active Member

Kia ora koutou

thanks heaps for you guys replying to my message!
As i mentiond i ewas looking for information on "Tapu"t see if me was the Tipuna in my Uakapapa! i'm still not to sure but hopefully find out soon!..have really enjoyed reading the info about Kai Tahu!

Tena mo te aui!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 22 December, 2007 11:40 pm
Share: