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pounamu  

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cosmospete OWC
(@cosmospete-owc)
Active Member

I am interested in the chemical properties of Pounamu (Nephrite). Nephros, I think is the greek name for Kidney. They used it for relief from various ailments, even drank the powder, and used it mixed with massage oils,etc.
When the Portugese conquered the inca's they found that Nephrite was used for similar reasons, and more prized than Gold etc.
The Chinese considered Nephrite more special than any other jewel (mineral)too and they, many centuries ago preferred the mutton fat (colour)variety for carving,but as far as I know none of those civilisations used it for implements.
I have seen many varieties and colours with many degrees of hardness sometimes embedded with soap stone and talc layers (pre-nephrite) due to different pressures and heat altering there crystal structure and direction prior to being exposed to the earths surface.
But When does it become pounamu ? or special from a healing or any other point of view etc, as the crystals are all the same but just interlocked in a different way, as even the softer varieties feel wonderful to me.

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Posted : 10 January, 2008 1:48 pm
Huia bird
(@huia-bird)
Active Member

But When does it become pounamu ? or special from a healing or any other point of view etc,


probably not the answer you are looking for but.............

When its time for it to be received.

ok, so that didnt help much did it?

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Posted : 18 January, 2008 10:14 am
rlee OWC
(@rlee-owc)
Eminent Member

there is a book worth reading amongst a few that we own called Mana Pounamu new Zealand Jade, written by Russell j Beck and Maika Mason, a local Of arahura, west coast, south island, it may help you understand a little better about the stone's properties in a geologic sense.

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Posted : 18 January, 2008 1:36 pm
cosmospete OWC
(@cosmospete-owc)
Active Member

quote:



But When does it become pounamu ? or special from a healing or any other point of view etc,


probably not the answer you are looking for but.............

When its time for it to be received.

ok, so that didnt help much did it?


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Posted : 18 January, 2008 6:20 pm
cosmospete OWC
(@cosmospete-owc)
Active Member

Thanks. yea, I know about that and have had similar answers that you gave.
The odd friend has believed the timing was right to recieve or had found some and felt wonderful with the piece, but has then been told it was not hard enough to be Pounamu.
Which leads me to the same question again.

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Posted : 18 January, 2008 6:47 pm
cosmospete OWC
(@cosmospete-owc)
Active Member

quote:


there is a book worth reading amongst a few that we own called Mana Pounamu new Zealand Jade, written by Russell j Beck and Maika Mason, a local Of arahura, west coast, south island, it may help you understand a little better about the stone's properties in a geologic sense.


Thanks yea I have had that book for a while it is great, and I am familiar with some of the areas they write about.
There is an old book by Theo Skinner, Jade Country written in 1973
ISBN 0 909250 00 6 Is interesting, it is out of print but a friend managed to obtain it off a website.

Do you know anything about or the significance of Aotea Stone found on the West Coast

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Posted : 18 January, 2008 7:12 pm
rlee OWC
(@rlee-owc)
Eminent Member

I live there but best you either contact ngai Tahu, or even better Ngati Waewae who can tell you what you want to know!

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Posted : 18 January, 2008 7:37 pm
maniclavender OWC
(@maniclavender-owc)
New Member

hey, you guys seems to know what you are talking about. i have a question about greenstone, if you can clarify somethings for me that would be great. I have bought myself a greenstone and have been told not to wear it as it brings bad luck, but i have been given them before as well, and i have have had more bad luck with the gifted ones with more good luck with the one i bought for myself, can you tell me why that is? and also what is supposed to happan if you buy greenstone for yourself? is it really that bad to buy them for yourself? thanks

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Posted : 18 January, 2008 9:18 pm
rlee OWC
(@rlee-owc)
Eminent Member

It is a Taonga given as a gift and in earlier times also used for trade. Has your stone been blessed appropriately beforehand? It is something you give with aroha to the reciepient, different carvings have their own special meanings, i am sure you will find plenty on the net that can tell you more!
Some are uanble to wear it, my sister found she could not, it was too cold for her! As for myself it gives me a beautiful warm feeling when worn close to my skin, and i immediately feel comfort, although I don't wear my different taonga as everyday items of jewellery.
The elders could read pounamu and the different hues and tones contained within the stone. like I say there is lots on the net that i am sure you will find interesting, and I am sure others will add to this!

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Posted : 18 January, 2008 9:45 pm
rlee OWC
(@rlee-owc)
Eminent Member

And cosmos, there is also serpentine, bowenite (tangiwai), inanga, kahurangi , kawakawa,hauhanga,kahotea (is that what you called aotea?), kokopu, pipiwharauroa,raukaraka, and weka (totoweka), depends which area as well as to the type of stone, spelling,and pronounciation differs for the dialect used etc.

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Posted : 18 January, 2008 10:02 pm
rlee OWC
(@rlee-owc)
Eminent Member

if you are refering to Aotea/kahotea?, well basically it relates to a traditional story of a boulder found way up a bank on the arahura, there was a toetoe flowering there at the time and to commerorate kupe's daughters first discovery of this white skinned rock, that is what the boulders became known as, we call it the casing, the outside layer, you never know what you will find inside until it is cut open!!!
Enough from me, go and find that special piece! but remember the protocol!!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18 January, 2008 10:14 pm
cosmospete OWC
(@cosmospete-owc)
Active Member

quote:


if you are refering to Aotea/kahotea?, well basically it relates to a traditional story of a boulder found way up a bank on the arahura, there was a toetoe flowering there at the time and to commerorate kupe's daughters first discovery of this white skinned rock, that is what the boulders became known as, we call it the casing, the outside layer, you never know what you will find inside until it is cut open!!!
Enough from me, go and find that special piece! but remember the protocol!!


Thanks, For that info I never knew that.
Yea I have a dilema sometimes with some protocols, wheras some friends have found a piece of Pounamu or like a piece they see but cant buy it because someone is supposed to buy it or gift it to them and then they have no-one around to do that but they so much want it cos it feels right for them, then someone gifts them a piece but it does not feel right.
Then they put themselves on a guilt trip when there not wearing it or have something else on next time they see that particular individual who's expression shows disapointment that you do not have it on, etc, etc.
You can actually make yourself sick by worrying about it or wearing it under those circumstances.

I would love to know the scource of the protocol, where it came from and if it is accepted by all.

I know a little about about Aotea stone but have read and heard different stories about it.
and would just like someone to clarify it for me or find some more interesting info.
Some call it Hine Aotea, and believe it is a stone for woman.
Some say it is the sister stone to the pouanumo.
Another story is that Maui was searching for the stone with the clouds,sky,stars, ocean,mountains, etc in it.
And that that was the stone. because inside some pieces it has everything like I mentioned above.
The mineral term is kyanite, but this type is found nowhere else in the world, and it is only found a few Bays up from where Maui apparently came ashore.
I was at a little local market last year and I had a few pieces that I had found with me, and and this old fella came by pointed at it and said Aotea stone He was so interesting and mentioned he was from up from the north of the north Island. I gave him a piece and he took it and clenched his fist and with a big grin said when the morning light enters, and thats the last I saw of him he just took off.
So every so often I have been checking the net for more info, I found it has magnetic properties and if you attach it to a hair strand it will point to the north, and other things like apparantly it never has to be cleansed, and its degree of hardness is 7.? one way and 3.? the other

Thanks

Pete

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Posted : 19 January, 2008 8:13 am
maniclavender OWC
(@maniclavender-owc)
New Member

thanks guys. i have looked on the internet and i couldn't find any info on this custom, so i decided to post here. the one i bought for myself is a mania carving and it's of a very dark green, almost black,without any flecks in it. i have always like green stone. i was at a very low point in my life and was going through a very hard time emotionally. one night, i had a voice in my head telling me to go get a greenstone, i was originally looking for a whale tail, but i coudln't find the one that felt right. when i came to the piece i have, it just felt right, and i felt like i had to buy it. and it makes me feel safe and calm wearing it. so i don't know if it's bad luck to wear it. you also mentioned getting it blessed, but i have no idea where to go for that! could you please suggest something? thanks

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Posted : 19 January, 2008 11:20 am
rlee OWC
(@rlee-owc)
Eminent Member

If it is gifted in a material sense, then it is a gift with no monetary value, down the track you would give a gift in return which would hold the same value.if you are wanting your stone blessed, seek an elder to help. the manaia was a good choice in your circumstance as the manaia is like having your guardian with you and represents protection, a basic explanation!. Many today buy their greenstone, you only have to take one look at all the tourist shops where I live! but seek an elder than can advise you on the best way to have your stone blessed.

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Posted : 19 January, 2008 1:30 pm
rlee OWC
(@rlee-owc)
Eminent Member

cosmos, nephrite is hard enough that a diamond saw is neede to cut. It rates 6 to 6.5 on mohs' scale of hardness, diamond being classed at 10, a steel file also rating around 6.5.
Bowenite is slightly softer at 5.5 to 6 on the scale. hardness relates to the stones ability to resist abrasions from other material.
A diamond is harder than pounamu and the difference is that the pounamu has no line of cleavage like a diamond does. Instead has the knotty interlacing fibrous structure which gives it the toughness lacking in a diamond.
The hardness and colour change can be changed with various uses of heat.
There is also Hine-kahurangi, Hine-Aotea, Hine -kawakawa, hine-tangiwai etc. They are the female personifications from legend and is to do with the stone being in living form in those legends. Kahotea/aotea is dark green with the black markings, not spots. there is also the story that hine-aotea was the one of the wives of tama ahua and came to the nz in the canoe Tairea with those other wives. he was looking for his wives and had only found hina-tangiwai, he journeyed further up the arahura river, he had a slave with him that he ended up killing, as punishment for the killing, a hill was formed called Tahua, from up there he looked down and saw his wives all turned to stone as well as his canoe tairea, he had slain the slave for the disrespectful way that he had prepared the food, this is a short version as i'm short on time!

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Posted : 19 January, 2008 1:53 pm
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