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Ngati Paoa  

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n8ive OWC
(@n8ive-owc)
Active Member

Tena tatou

I'm a newbie at this, but after reading many posts about Ngati Paoa I thought we could set-up a separate topic... as it seems to be a hot topic after reading Te Rauroha's angst ridden comment and then the original request for whakatauki could be honoured, thoughts anyone?

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Posted : 11 December, 2006 5:50 pm
pono OWC
(@pono-owc)
Eminent Member

tena koe n8ive
ae tino pai

Feel sadly reading about ngati paoa. Make me wonder why hasn't leave it rest. Otherwise, the past will never end.
This is serious problems had to sorted out.(not meaning wars) Whanau gatherings or something. Get rid of bad cycle.

We are all relative no matter where we from. We are one BIG BIG BIG BIG happy whanau from nga hau e wha "One for all and all for one"!

just a thoughts

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Posted : 11 December, 2006 7:54 pm
n8ive OWC
(@n8ive-owc)
Active Member

yep, although I don't agree with Te Rauroha's comment, I think it did encourage (although negatively) thought and action... we Ngati Paoa need to discuss why our youth find it amusing to defame and shame themselves

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Posted : 11 December, 2006 9:14 pm
matahuru OWC
(@matahuru-owc)
Eminent Member

Maybe its time to return to Kaiaua and receive the korero straight from the elders there. I have close whanaunga that are amongst the Ngati Paoa delegation currently involved in mana whenua claims with Sylvia park, Mt Wellington.

He went home and learnt his reo. As a result the elders decided to hand him a lot of the korero that he now uses to the benefit of the iwi and the marae.

He is the most passionate man I have ever heard speak regarding Paoa. His knowledge although he is still young, amazes me still. I should speak to him about this thread and maybe he will decide to teach some of you what Ngati Paoa is really about, past , present and future.

Kia ora

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Posted : 12 December, 2006 10:26 am
Te Kawatapuarangi OWC
(@te-kawatapuarangi-owc)
Active Member

I two know alot of Kaumatua from Ngaati Paoa That would agree with Matahuru.

people need to know more of the history of their Marae,Iwi And Haapu before they speak of Other iwi's

No doubt that im Also From Ngaati Paoa, but like some others i dont no enough about the iwi of Ngaati Paoa.

Ive learnt a Few of Ngaati Paoa but not enough to speak abowt it. ive learnt that Ngaati Paoa Had fleed to Waikato for Help from the fierce iwi Of Nga Puhi And other History.

I do not claim much of Ngaati Paoa as i was brought up Within the Kingitanga Area Of Waikato

But it Amazes me how people judge other people by their korero such as telling of the history and war stories out at Maungatautari how the Ngaati Haaua Waikato people Had 2 Remove does of Hauraki out of that Rohe

Heoi ano Kaare tenei tenei korero ki te whakaiti i te tangat no Hauraki, a, he korero tenei i wharikingia ke e aku tipuna matua ki ahau

na reira koina ngooku korero mo tenei wa

Kia Ora Ra....

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Posted : 12 December, 2006 1:27 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

Kia ora ngoku whanaunga,

Nga mihi nunui ki a koutou kua putuputu mai ki raro i te marumaru o tenei muka,

I come from Kaiaua, as do all of my whanaunga, I agree, there are big issues within my generation and there is a lack of knowledge about who we are and our relationships with Waikato iwi and the fact that we (at least in my whanau) enjoy a great relationship with the kahui ariki of Waikato.

I apologise for losing my temper but I don't tolerate derogatory remarks about Hauraki, particularly about Ngati Paoa. There is just something that stirs within me. If there be any Coromandels, Aramoanas, Rawiris, Eketones, Renatas out there, or anyone who can whakapapa to Te Atiu or Te Horeta Te Taniwha or to Tu Kotahi Karamaene, this is your whanaunga calling out to you.

Ka tau ki konei taku karanga

Edited by - tane_ariki on Dec 12 2006 2:09:44 PM

Edited by - tane_ariki on Dec 12 2006 2:10:38 PM

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Posted : 12 December, 2006 2:08 pm
n8ive OWC
(@n8ive-owc)
Active Member

hmmm... I agree with you tane_ariki, we need not abide derogatory remarks - about any iwi. From what I saw of the 'whakatauki' forum many were shocked and angered, some with links to Paoa and some without direct links. I think it's a good reminder that there are very strong links between many iwi, but particularly between Waikato and Hauraki - Pare Waikato, Pare Hauraki

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Posted : 12 December, 2006 4:26 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

Exactly. I think perhaps, the history of Hauraki and particularly that of the Marutuahu group of Tainui peoples needs to be told and hold an equal footing with those that relate to our relations down in the Waikato region. Some people actually believe that our king is the only ariki. If that were true, then the term kahui ariki as I understand it must be wrong since that implies plural.

I whakapapa to both regions so I feel quite strongly about this issue, as would anyone else.

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Posted : 12 December, 2006 4:41 pm
n8ive OWC
(@n8ive-owc)
Active Member

hey, tane_ariki - could you expand a bit on your understanding of kahui ariki?

Also matahuru, you talk about Maungarei, do you know much of the history?

Edited by - n8ive on Dec 12 2006 5:21:49 PM

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Posted : 12 December, 2006 5:03 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

as far as I understand, kahui actually refers to a flock, and therefore, that means that there has to be more than one sentient being before it can be called a flock. In this case, there has to be more than one ariki. While we can have one King, or one Queen, the idea of one ariki is a foreign to say the least since traditionally, there have always been multiple ariki in different areas. Having more than one ariki doesn't imply a lack of unity or one wanting to split up - rather, it says that in terms of administration, there is more workload sharing going on. A team of many people is better than a soloist.

I only bring this up because of what I had been taught.

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Posted : 12 December, 2006 5:28 pm
n8ive OWC
(@n8ive-owc)
Active Member

Although the flock doesn't necessitate sentience, just one who will take the strong headwinds for a time. Here, I'm being a bit cheeky - and before anyone gets up-in-arms I'm not talking about the living - just birds.

I am curious about who taught you tane_ariki

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Posted : 12 December, 2006 5:48 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

quote:


Although the flock doesn't necessitate sentience, just one who will take the strong headwinds for a time. Here, I'm being a bit cheeky - and before anyone gets up-in-arms I'm not talking about the living - just birds.


lol

quote:


I am curious about who taught you tane_ariki


My family, particularly my father, and myself through heavy meditation.

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Posted : 12 December, 2006 6:11 pm
pono OWC
(@pono-owc)
Eminent Member

Kia ora
Interest korero about kahui ariki.

Maybe another ariki is out there?
I don't know anything about my real whanau or whakapapa. I was told by them three tohunga matuhi. One at waikato, tauranga and taumaranui. They have never seen it on me. I left it at home.
Taumaranui say he could see pair of legs thru glassy greenstone as he say its a mauri (life of principles), waikato says when I get back home washed in under very hot water because it was makutu (don't know why?), and tauranga says goes way back to 150 generations (how far is this?) They're talking about my greenstone pendant.

By the way, I was born and breed at waiomu mountain, thames. Now & then go back there visit the old homestead never forgotten that place and beaches my nanny M & I use to loved sing waiata, kai, picked pipis, cockles, rock oysters, walked up the mountain or down waiomu stream for bathe. when she died I was taken at very young age by strange people.
Now I am 54yrs old and still searching for my nanny M, feels she is my mother. I was known by these name arahiaarakinui or araherearikinui and ngoini. I don't use it today.

arohamai got carry away my korero maybe I could be ngati paoa too as we are close to kaiaua over the other side of the beach don't know might be I'm wrong.

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Posted : 13 December, 2006 12:02 am
matahuru OWC
(@matahuru-owc)
Eminent Member

Tena koutou katoa

The term kahui ariki refers to all descendents from the main ariki line. For instance Te Ata had many children, Heeni, Tuheitia, Tomairangi, Maha and Gabby whose real name I do not know but I know her well enough to call her Gabby. All awesome people and are considered Kahui ariki as are their children and their childrens children.

Now in regards to Paoa, you would be correct in asserting that he was/is also kahui ariki as he was the brother of Mahuta from which the main ariki line comes through. Yet in the strictest sense it would be the eldest male line from that ancestor that could rightfully claim kahui ariki status and that line would have needed to occasionally cross back into the current ariki line to strengthen the bond.

However in general most people know that Paoa was of the main line remembering also that through the same whakapapa he connects to most of the ariki lines of aotearoa, one of the reasons why Te Wherowhero was selected as the First Maori king.

As for Maungarei, I am sorry n8ive, all I know is my cuz is busy tearing up the council and anyone else that stands in his way, supporting his elders with that particular kaupapa. His surname is Tupuhi. If you know anything about Ngati Paoa politics you will know who I am talking about. Thats all I am prepared to say on that matter. hehe I will let him comment if he feels inclined to do so. Kia ora

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Posted : 13 December, 2006 11:03 am
matahuru OWC
(@matahuru-owc)
Eminent Member

Kia ora ano korua

After reading your post n8ive regarding maungarei, I did a quick google search and came up with this. Thought you guys might find it interesting.

LAND AND IDENTITY IN TAMAKI:
A Ngati Whatua Perspective
Extracted from a lecture by I.H Kawharu delivered 13
November 2001

Ngati Whatua originated at an indeterminate point in time in the far north and made their way through the Hokianga down into the Kaipara. By the 16th and 17th centuries they were well established around the Kaipara harbour. In the early 18th century a serious altercation occurred in the southern Kaipara between
the Waiohua of Tamaki and Ngati Whatua, which
resulted in a heavy loss of life among Ngati Whatua.

Honour required the account to be settled, and it was not long after that Ngati Whatua evened the score and took possession of the Tamaki Isthmus. Following custom, Ngati Whatua invited the vanquished Waiohua to join forces with them, an invitation which was accepted and confirmed in a number of marriages. Under the leadership of Tuperiri, Ngati Whatua established themselves in the following decades throughout the isthmus, particularly along the axis between the volcanic cones Te Arapueru(Mangere Mountain) and Maungakiekie (One Tree Hill), Tuperiri’s pa. Beyond this defence line Ngati Whatua managed the day-to-day control and exploitation of the whole isthmus and the adjoining harbours.

The viability of any economic organisation in pre-contact times was always likely to be dependent upon the outcome of successful political strategies. Thus Ngati Whatua had been ensuring their political control of the Tamaki Isthmus by establishing mutually beneficial alliances with the neighbouring Tainui and
Ngati Paoa tribes on their southern borders.

In the mid 1820’s Ngati Whatua had been forced to
seek refuge from the threat of their musket-armed
cousins to the north, Ngapuhi, and found it with yet other kin in the northern part of the Waikato. Then when there was an evening in the balance of the musket-determined power, Ngati Whatua felt able to return to reoccupy their former settlements in the isthmus. But, of course they had incurred a substantial
debt to Tainui and they settled it by the gifting of a number of blocks of land. One, for instance, was between Mount Hobson and the western slopes of Maungakiekie. They also received land from Ngati Whatua in the vicinity of Onehunga, the Orakei Basin, and Mt. Roskill.

A similar relationship to that with Tainui was also established with Ngati Paoa. Ngati Paoa, who occupied areas in the firth of Thames and Waiheke Island, received land from Ngati Whatua in something akin to a dowry, in the vicinity of the volcanic fortification, Maungarei (Mount Wellington) on the western bank of the Tamaki estuary in the late 18th century. Thus in addition to the day-to-day tactics of maintaining the internal integrity and safety of the tribe, chiefs also had to take care to maintain stable external relations by way of tuku rangatira – the granting of access to
lands and associated resources to allies.

(This korero was given, as stated at the top by the recently deceased I. H. Kawharu, the Ngati Whatua rangatira.)

Kia ora

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Posted : 13 December, 2006 11:53 am
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