Welcome to the Whakapapa Club Forums where you will find a wealth of information.  You are free to browse the forums, but if you wish to comment or add requests, you must register, which is quick and easy and you can even use your Facebook Login.

Once you have signed up and posted either a reply or a new post it will not appear in the forums until it has been approved – this is to stop spam from appearing and keeping our Whakapapa Club Forums relavent for Whakapapa only.

If someone helps you don’t forget to acknowlege them.

Who are the iwi of the Coromandel area?  

Page 1 / 2
  RSS
Tirairaka OWC
(@tirairaka-owc)
New Member

Kia ora.

Very new and finding my way around. Just curious to know if there are people from around the Coromandel town to Whitianga part of the peninsula? Ngati Tamatera? Is there a marae there? It seemed to me that travelling from Rotorua where Maoritanga is evident, it seems to disappear north of Waihi?

Thanks for the information.

Quote
Posted : 03 October, 2007 2:11 am
DDD OWC
(@ddd-owc)
Active Member

it dosen't disapear. those marututahu peoples are just a bit more discreet, hiding in the bushes waiting to pounce on you!. Coromandel is rich in maoritanga.
Tane Ariki is the one to answer your query here

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03 October, 2007 8:08 am
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

Tena koe DDD,

LOL @ tau korero.

Nga mihi nunui ki a koe Tirairaka,

The iwi of Coromandel Peninsular is a hotly debated topic. Its because there are three layers of Maori settlement.

The first layer were Ngati Hako, ancient Tainui tribes (Nga Marama) and Te Arawa tribes (like Ngati Hei).

The second layer are the Marutuahu (my people). Thus Ngati Whanaunga, Ngati Paoa, Ngati Tamatera, Ngati Rongou and Ngati Maru. The second layer holds mana whenua and mana moana (we extinguished the first group's mana whenua/mana moana. However, the first group never "disappeared" and have always been there).

Third layer is everyone else (and that includes *cough* *cough* Ngati Porou *cough* *cough*). The third groups got here through tuku whenua and or slavery.

The Hauraki tribes have always had small population sizes. Ngati Whanaunga only has 500 people associated to it (which means my whanau make up half of the tribe - there are 200 + of us alone amongst the first cousins). And NONE of my whanau live on the peninsular itself. We've all dispersed around the island (or around Tamaki Makaurau where Ngati Whanaunga have a claim).

And all of us have some grip on Maoritanga. We're too busy lecturing other iwi/hapu on aspects of Maoritanga! Well, we're a bit like Tuhoe these days, in that you'll find most teachers of te reo tend to be of Tuhoe descent. I think it is great that our Tuhoe relations have taken it upon them to share the taonga that te reo is and do their bit to help us reclaim "mana reo, mana tangata". Nga mihi nunui ki a koutou katoa nga uri huhua o Tuhoe potiki.

As for Coromandel town itself. Hm, e ai ki nga korero i rangona ai e au i taku taitamarikitanga, um, Coromandel belongs to Ngati Whanaunga/Ngati Paoa. Ngati Tamatera have also settled there, but Coromandel itself is a Ngati Whanaunga strong hold (or so I was told haha). At any rate, saying a place belongs to one iwi in Hauraki is going to draw a lot of anger and criticism from members of other iwi who believe they have connections (real or imagined) to that place too.

Anyone who doubts the relationship of Ngati Whanaunga to Coromandel I can kindly point to a letter written by our beloved ariki, Te Horeta Te Taniwha, in the early 1850s addressed to George Grey where the sent address is from Coromandel. In the letter he tells Sir George Grey the line of succession (he has told his son to be kind to Pakeha, and in turn, Sir George Grey is to be kind to Maori).

What kind of "Maori" things were you expecting? Maoritanga encompasses both spiritual and physical aspects, so while the "physical" may not be there (even though it is...), the "spiritual" power throughout the land is quite strong.

I should know, having been looked after by the ocean there, and the serenity that I felt when I was on the peninsular last time.

Edited by - tane_ariki on Oct 03 2007 2:59:35 PM

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03 October, 2007 2:54 pm
Tirairaka OWC
(@tirairaka-owc)
New Member

Tena ra korua Tane, DDD!
Tino pai rawa whakarongo i a korua. (It's really good to hear from the two of you) (Please correct my grammar if I'm wrong, I still have problems with the "particles")
I never realized that the situation of land was so complicated and multilayered. No wonder the necessity for clear whakapapa for everyone to try and keep arguments from breaking out as to who has claims where!
How is mana whenua and mana moana conferred? Is it through inheritance from one ancestor who claimed the mana by force of arms or cunning or marriage from the First Layer peoples you mentioned Tane? And then passed it on to his children and so on? I am no politician and not a student of politics. I am not even of European/Caucasian descent. I am, I suppose, just as curious as a child asking these questions to try and understand. I mean no disrespect and do not mean to offend if I ask difficult questions.

Is your Turangawaewae then in Coromandel town Tane? It occurs to me that with marriages and births, a person to then claim linkages to widespread iwi and hapu....in fact, he tuhonohonotanga pae nga tangata!(people are a network). Can one person have more than one turangawaewae?

Incidentally "e ai ki nga korero i rangona ai e au i taku taitamarikitanga" I undertand to mean "about our conversation, I heard when I was an adolescent" Is that right?

Interesting question about the "physical" and "spiritual" parts. You're right, the physical part of Maoritanga was not visible to my tauiwi mata in the short visit I had to the region. Otira, ka hotu te wairua, travelling through the old forests off the "309 road". One day, I would like to be part of that place.

Is there a Maori name for the area off the "309"? What does Mahakirau mean? Calm leaves?

Kia ora
noa ahau
David
Please correct my grammar!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04 October, 2007 1:53 am
DDD OWC
(@ddd-owc)
Active Member

mana whenua! now theres a controversial question, and I must put a plug in hear for the holders of the korero, place names, and wahi tapu, also ahi kaa, as land marks of mana whenua.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04 October, 2007 8:08 am
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

quote:


mana whenua! now theres a controversial question, and I must put a plug in hear for the holders of the korero, place names, and wahi tapu, also ahi kaa, as land marks of mana whenua.


Its always controversial - Hauraki is the only region in Aotearoa where you have to be very careful about asserting mana whenua, mana moana because (nearly) all the iwi have connections in every single part of the region.

Which is why its so so so important to acknowledge the fact that Hauraki was settled in three layers and to acknowledge those three layers of settlement.

Its so important to acknowledge Ngati Hako, Ngati Hei, Nga Marama, Maruiwi et al because they form the first layer. Its more important these days because they have a lot more power to wield than they did in the past. Its also important to recognise them as they have held ahi ka for such a long time. Thus, no history of Hauraki is complete if we don't go beyond the Marutuahu people.

The third layer is made up of tuku whenua - a lot of those people who got in under tuku whenua have inter-married with Marutuahu so its through the Marutuahu side that they connect to the land. But their inter-marriage doesn't cancel out the rights of Marutuahu to access their whenua. And because they are also Marutuahu, they can gain access to Marutuahu whenua too. So its a relationship of reciprocity whereby the Marutuahu whakapapa allows this free movement.

For this third layer, the non-Marutuahu whakapapa enables them to have an identity that is not Marutuahu dominated and also allows them access back to where their iwi originally came from. Of course, for some of the third layer, they can't do that because they were brought in as slaves (all the people who name themselves Te Whakatohea in Hauraki are the descendants of slaves). For them, its much harder to find their whakapapa links. However, just because their ancestors were made slaves doesn't mean that they are today.

quote:


Can one person have more than one turangawaewae?


yes one can but that is determined upon a whole lot of things. However, its most important that they have genealogy to the area that they claim as their turangarangawaewae.

quote:


How is mana whenua and mana moana conferred? Is it through inheritance from one ancestor who claimed the mana by force of arms or cunning or marriage from the First Layer peoples you mentioned Tane? And then passed it on to his children and so on?


Through genealogy. The ultimate source of all mana comes from the "spirit" world. That is where mana originates from.

To claim mana from another tribe over their land and sea resources, you have to destroy that tribe. You have to destroy their cemetries, pou whenua (boundary markers) and inter-marry with as many of them as possible. You also have to change place names OR tell the history from the perspective of your tribe and perpetuate it.

You also have to perform special rites as well, setting up altars and whatnot.

Marutuahu gained the foothold he did, along with his sons, because they exterminated many of the original inhabitants. Now, the reason for their exterminating was because of (perceived) insults that the local people had committed against Marutuahu's father, Hotunui, when he was living in Whakatiwai (Whakatiwai = To establish).

The history of Marutuahu takes us back into the Kawhia region where most of the Tainui people originate from. The history of Hauraki is inter-twined with Kawhia and to completely understand the movement into Hauraki is to understand why the Tainui people sailed from Hawaiki to Aotearoa.

Edited by - tane_ariki on Oct 04 2007 12:21:24 PM

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04 October, 2007 12:20 pm
kpakidd liked
Bug OWC
(@bug-owc)
New Member

I don't know the who the iwi of all of coromandel is, but I know Kennedy Bay area is Ngati Porou. Gifted to us by Nga Puhi [I dont know details =/ I never asked].

I'm Ngati Porou from Kennedy Bay, Coromandel.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 31 October, 2007 10:42 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

Nga Puhi don't even have a stake in Hauraki so they never "gifted" it.

I encourage you to learn more about the tuku whenua and what tuku whenua means and entails.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03 November, 2007 2:30 am
cherimac OWC
(@cherimac-owc)
New Member

quote:


I don't know the who the iwi of all of coromandel is, but I know Kennedy Bay area is Ngati Porou. Gifted to us by Nga Puhi [I dont know details =/ I never asked].

I'm Ngati Porou from Kennedy Bay, Coromandel.



Don't know who you are luv but it might be a good idea if you kept that horrible little thought to yourself. If our people knew you thought that K Bay came from Nga Puhi they may do to you what Nga Puhi did to all our ancestors way back in the day. And in case you think its all teko, just ask.
Kennedy Bay was a resting place. A place where they could get fresh water and food and rest on their way back to their own area or on their way through to where ever they were going.Some of them liked the place so much they decided to stay on.But not once did Kennedy Bay ever belong to Nga Puhi.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03 November, 2007 6:08 pm
Bug OWC
(@bug-owc)
New Member

Yeah, my bad.

I meant 'Ngati Tamatera' gifted it to us, not 'Nga Puhi' =/ Sorry. The cheif ot Ngati Tamatera, Paora Te Putu, gifted Ngati Porou - Kennedy Bay which helped Ngati Porou in coastal trading with Auckland Markets.

But yeah... doesn't change the fact Kennedy Bay is Ngati Porou =D [But I am sorry for getting iwi mixed up =/]

Edited by - Bug on Nov 05 2007 10:21:24 PM

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04 November, 2007 8:48 pm
Korks OWC
(@korks-owc)
Active Member

Just wanted to acknowledge the presence and mana whenua of Ngati Pukenga ki Manaia (not mentioned in any previous posts) 🙂

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25 November, 2007 5:27 pm
Nani OWC
(@nani-owc)
Eminent Member

Tēnā koe tirairaka, its good to read your comments re the Coromandel. Tēnā koe hoki e te whanaunga ko Tane, what a treasure you have shared about Coromandel's māori history. Ka tuku āku mihi ki a kōrua.
I too am a mokopuna of Marutuahu & whakapapa to Te Pai o Hauraki marae, ko te marae matua o terā rohe.
Keriata was my koro's mother & her koro was Tukukino.
He mihi aroha ano. Mā te Atua e manaaki.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18 December, 2007 8:58 am
nikswatene OWC
(@nikswatene-owc)
Active Member

hmmmmmmmmmmmm I'm married to a Ngati Porou man myself and he always loooooooooves sharing with me that his people own a peice of my land.... i think sometimes maybe they need to do the actual research to really appreciate it.
Although I have never physcially lived in the Hauraki area, everytime we go home we always make sure we take our children there. I take great pride in knowing that I come from there and also it was only the generation before me that left there so my ties to that land are still fresh. My brothers and sisters and I often lament over our parents and grandparents selling their land to the pakeha (only 20-30 years ago). I always have a quick look in the realestate section for Kaiaua, Totara and the Coromandel area to see whats available and AUEEEE REALITY CHECK!!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28 December, 2007 4:04 pm
Christabelle67 OWC
(@christabelle67-owc)
Active Member

Tena koe Nikswatene

Ae! I was recently looking at Real Estate in Kaiaua and around Thames, Coromandel and *phewey*! Though one day soon I will buy a block of land for my honey and I to go home to and live close to Wharekawa Marae. It is so beautiful and peaceful there. My parents are heading home soon (we in Oz too) to live in Kaiaua, which excites me to no ends!
Happy New Year 2008
Naku noa
Christel

ReplyQuote
Posted : 29 December, 2007 1:47 am
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

On one visit I went to Hauraki I managed to catch a fish. The poor pakeha there caught none and he was really upset because he was an expert fisherman and here I was a complete greenie to fishing casting a line and getting a fish within 30 minutes flat.

That was a memorable moment with one of my older brothers.

When we left the area the radio tuned into a radio station that was playing a farewell song (quite spooky actually but we laughed it off coz the whole situation was really really corny).

Which got me thinking that my ancestors were there. I was really appreciative of that fact.

One time we drove to Hastings and we went via Matamata. While we were driving around I saw Table mountain and I pictured my grandfather riding his horse along the summit. Then, I couldn't take my eyes away from the mountains. I felt the land calling out to me, saying, 'stop! stop! come visit us! please!!!'. I sadly couldn't as another older brother who was driving the car was in a hurry to get to Hastings - he also doesn't share the same sentimental feelings as I do for the place.

As if trying to cheer me up, my favourite Tahitian song started playing (Te Mama Rava). I played it over and over again until Hauraki had disappeared again.

Memories - so important to keep.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 29 December, 2007 2:22 am
Page 1 / 2
Share: