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Who's Your Living Chief  

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Gemini G OWC
(@gemini-g-owc)
Eminent Member

Why how come in the mihi, maori can name their hapu, iwi, awa, maunga, waka, marae, mum, dad, house, , but not their chief or their flag

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Posted : 24 December, 2007 7:51 pm
taiga
(@taiga)
Trusted Member

because in reality it should be a forgone conclusion to who the reigning ariki is of a particular iwi. I would consider it rude if this was told. Much like how some consider it rude to ask a person's name.

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Posted : 30 December, 2007 4:56 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

What Taiga said.

Though, some people mention the ariki of their iwi in their mihi so putting it in with the whakapapa would be a bit tautological..

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Posted : 30 December, 2007 7:25 pm
maniapoto_jack OWC
(@maniapoto_jack-owc)
Active Member

What is a chief anyway? A rangatira?

Ko te rangatira, he tangata e rangaranga haere ana i te tira tangata. A cheif is someone who brings the people together, not much of them around anymore. Lol sorry to sound negative.

Iwi like Tuwharetoa obviosly claim the standing Te Heuheu as there rangatira, thus the senior line of the iwi and Waikato claim the King as there rangatira, thus through whakapapa also and the apointment of the people for that person to stand.

However i wouldnt look at it like this in every case, its a big scale claiming a chief over a entire iwi, iwi consist of thousands of people. I would look at my marae, there i see particular people of my hapu, the people who hold the knowledge, the mangai who speak for us at events such as tangi, powhiri, either at home or away. These people i consider my rangatira. They work for the people in a humble way and we support them because of this. Im not going to name them but the people back home know who they are and hold these people in high esteem.

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Posted : 31 December, 2007 11:47 am
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

quote:


Ko te rangatira, he tangata e rangaranga haere ana i te tira tangata. A cheif is someone who brings the people together,


You copied that from Te Whanau Moana, didn't you? :P. Shane Jones has said thatd definition countless times yet...kaore au mo te ngau tuara, engari, e ai ki ta tetehi rangatira, ina haere koe ki te whare iti i te whare miere ka taea e koe te rongo i a Shane - maybe thats how he can rangaranga i te tira tangata? Anyhow such talk is mean and unproven - unless someone wants to go and find out??? Shane Jones has his ambitions and he's made it clear that he is a Labour man not a Maori kaupapa man...

Anywho, as far as I understand it, there are two classes of chiefs. One class is the kind that have chiefly whakapapa since time immemorial and have the closest connections with the gods and ancestors. I call them ariki. The second class can also have chiefly genealogy but this is not as important since a commoner can also make it into this class by being a complete brain who is successful and has charm and charisma and strives to do that which is tika - I call them rangatira.

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Posted : 31 December, 2007 12:43 pm
Gemini G OWC
(@gemini-g-owc)
Eminent Member

thank you all for your opinions. I just think that a tribe with no chief is like a body with no head.

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Posted : 06 January, 2008 9:49 pm
Nani OWC
(@nani-owc)
Eminent Member

Kia ora Gemini, we dont have your saying ' a tribe with no chief is like a body with no head' in Te Ao Māori, perhaps it is more applicable in Te Ao Pākēhā ne??

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Posted : 11 January, 2008 8:19 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

Tthat kind of saying doesn't exist in te ao Pakeha either, at least from a Christian point of view.

The closest saying resembling that is found in one of Paul's epistles in the New Testament. He likes the church to a human body, and how every part of the body is needed to help the body function perfectly. Likewise, all positions within the church are important in helping the church function properly.

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Posted : 11 January, 2008 9:15 pm
Gemini G OWC
(@gemini-g-owc)
Eminent Member

it be more like faith without works, in biblical terms, for me, e tane

well what is the saying in te ao maori with regard to a tribe with no chief, e nani

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Posted : 12 January, 2008 1:41 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

So then, name tribes with no chiefs then?

I can think of a good whakatauki that relates to non-unity - Ko Ngapuhi kowhao rau.

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Posted : 12 January, 2008 3:17 pm
Gemini G OWC
(@gemini-g-owc)
Eminent Member

with no chief there is no tribe. sheep without a shepherd.

what you do have though is a CEO, and that's not a chief of a tribe.

you don't own the land, you don't even own yourself. what you do own, is shares. sold to the government is what you are. bought and paid for. flagged.

and you can't blame that on the chief, since you don't have one.

and a rangatira is one that owns and occupies his/her own place.

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Posted : 13 January, 2008 8:07 am
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

Who is the "you" that you are referring to?

Tainui have many chiefs. Rangatira and ariki. It does not make one iota of difference if you knew them or not.

As far as land ownership goes, we do own land. My family owns land. Sorry, but if you were addressing myself and Tainui then you've picked the wrong person ^_^.

Sorry, better luck next time!

Edited by - tane_ariki on Jan 13 2008 3:58:52 PM

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Posted : 13 January, 2008 3:55 pm
Gemini G OWC
(@gemini-g-owc)
Eminent Member

Are the living chiefs of today aware of the document 'The Declaration Of Independence Of New Zealand, 28 October, 1835?'

Are the people aware of it's existence?

What are the differences between the declaration of independence and the treaty of waitangi?

Let's look shall we!

THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE OF NEW ZEALAND 28 OCTOBER 1835

1. We the hereditary chiefs and heads of the tribes of the Northern parts of New Zealand, being assembled at Waitangi in the Bay of Islands, on this 28th day of October, 1835, declare the independence of our country which is hereby constituted and declared to be an Independent State under the designation of the United Tribes of New Zealand.

2. All sovereign power and authority within the territories of the united tribes of New Zealand is hereby declared to reside entirely and exclusively in the hereditary chiefs and heads of tribes in their collective capacity, who also declare that they will not permit any legislative authority separate from themselves in their collective capacity, nor any function of government to be exercised within the said territories, unless by persons appointed by them and acting under the authority of laws regularly enacted by them in Congress assembled.

3. The hereditary chiefs and heads of tribes agree to meet in Congress at Waitangi in the autumn of each year for the purpose of framing laws for the dispensation of justice, the preservation of peace and good order and the regulation of trade. They also cordially invite the southern tribes to lay aside their private animosities and to consult the safety and welfare of our common country by joining the Confederation of the United Tribes.

4. They also agree to send a copy of this Declaration to His Majesty the King of England to thank him for his acknowledgement of their flag. In return for the friendship and protection that they have shown and are prepared to show to such of his subjects as have settled in their country or resorted to its shores for the purposes of trade, they entreat that he will continue to be the parent of their infant State, to protect it from all attempts upon its independence.

Agreed to in its entirety by us on this 28th day of October, 1835, in the presence of His Britannic Majesty's Resident.

c'mon y'll lets get stuck in!

Where is your chief?, where is your chief?

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Posted : 14 January, 2008 10:02 am
Purerehua OWC
(@purerehua-owc)
Active Member

Kia Ora G,
You go gurl. I shall be the first to step up to answer your question. My tupuna was the first to sign. Ko Te Paerata no Te Paatu.
I'm ready when you are.
Tena koutou katoa.

Edited by - Purerehua on Jan 14 2008 10:31:19 AM

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Posted : 14 January, 2008 10:13 am
Gemini G OWC
(@gemini-g-owc)
Eminent Member

lol,

Ki a maniapoto jack,

what is a chief you ask?

he is the tinorangatira and the identity giver and whakapapa holder.

without him they are nobody.

there is a great difference between an appointed rangatira and an hereditary rangatira, through blood line.

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Posted : 14 January, 2008 11:00 am
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