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foster children  

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frontman OWC
(@frontman-owc)
Active Member

Can anyone tell me what rights have these children got if they are wanting to make claims to lands via whakapapa.

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Posted : 03 July, 2007 1:31 pm
pono OWC
(@pono-owc)
Eminent Member

kia ora

I know of the whanau had the same issue.
Here little from what I know.

Whether the child legally adopted (whangai) or not, had the right to the claims from whanagi parents and biological parents.

From what I believe, the whanau trust in placed and agreed by few brothers and sisters to allow their widow parent to succeed their whangai child into their whanau trust. Only one of their sibling never agree this trust who is their eldest.
Anyway, succession had been accepted by the MLC without the eldest consented who had the shares in his names passed down from his grandparents have locked him in the trust. Just waiting for him to apply for investing order. Silly, when they the whanau had already form the whanau trust. why need him apply? Doesn't makes sense here!

Whangai parents agreed their child named succeeded in the whanau trusts.
Bio parent's side/whanau cannot claims to his/her whanagai interests.
Except whangai child can claims both side of the whanau, biological parents and whangai whanau interests.

Last year, I had a visit talking to a foster's bio parent(mother) asking me can her child claim her interests when passed on.

My replied, what is best for the child.
the answer is yes

The cunning part is the whangai whanau had the right to claim his/her parent's shares!

Hope it makes sense!

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Posted : 03 July, 2007 3:47 pm
frontman OWC
(@frontman-owc)
Active Member

Kia Ora Pono, for your answer. I understand what your saying but the infromation given to me from my girlfriend is that she was told that she can not make a claim because she was " whangai" and even if she still does want to make that claim she has to get letters from all her Bio siblings. She has shares from her whangai parents. Her "bio brother" who also was whangai to another whanau was able to suceed to his "bio parents" shares. Why is there "double standeds" he was! but she wasn't.
She was told this from staff at MLC.
Have you or anyone heard of this happening and why should she need to get letters from all her siblings.

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Posted : 03 July, 2007 8:35 pm
pono OWC
(@pono-owc)
Eminent Member

kia ora

I'd post up the aritcle on "family trust" here. check it out. Might be interesting for you.

Anyway, her birth cert, or whakapapa she still had the right.
Think maybe her brother's whangai whanau may have quickly beat her to succeed bio parents shares put in his whangai whanau trust. I'm not sure how he did it, that something to look into.
Or maybe he got the letter from his sibling and succeeded without she known.

Sounds like she has been given the shares in her names I guess!
Has she got paper saying shares in her names?
She can apply a succession just to make sure is in her names. That only if she can prove that.

Another tricky part is "why need letters from sibling because the MLC want to split her shares between her bio sibling" once family trust formed.

arohamai not able to help much.
when i find out more i'll post update

Edited by - pono on Jul 03 2007 9:40:55 PM

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03 July, 2007 9:33 pm
DDD OWC
(@ddd-owc)
Active Member

i know of cases where foster or adopted children have inherited land and speaking rights over the blood children. I think each family determines for itself. Personally I don't see anything wrong with this. If the child is loved as a true child by the parents then they are no different than the others.

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Posted : 04 July, 2007 8:54 am
taiga
(@taiga)
Trusted Member

Ask Matahuru she will probably know

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04 July, 2007 9:17 am
kotiro_maori OWC
(@kotiro_maori-owc)
Active Member

Kia ora frontman,
there is a book called Te Pouwhenua put out by MLC and it will tell you the legalities of the whangai child.
I hope it has the answers for you.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05 July, 2007 5:07 pm
kotiro_maori OWC
(@kotiro_maori-owc)
Active Member

Kia ora ano frontman,
just googled Te Pouwhenua and it's the 2005 you want to look at.

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Posted : 05 July, 2007 6:08 pm
kiriwai
(@kiriwai)
Active Member

Kia ora, just thought I copy this out for all to read, from the booklet a guide to "Succession" from the Te Ture Whenua Maori Act 1993.

The Act permits the inclusion of WHANGAI in succession and gives the Court the power to determine the extent of that person's shares. The whanau may want to include whangai, but only to a limited extent, and the MLC can respect that wish. The MLC must be satisfied that whangai should be included and will seek evidence from the family about this.

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Posted : 06 July, 2007 12:57 am
kiriwai
(@kiriwai)
Active Member

Just something else I might in.

My parents whangai my son, my mother wrote her will out and included him in her land shares, but he was not included in my father's land shares because he had died before her and did not leave a will. All my brothers and sisters did not make a fuss as he stayed at home and looked after his Nanny and Koro up till they both passed away. AS well as his Nanny's shares, he will also be included in my shares from both my parents between his brothers and sisters, which will then make him a shareholder back into his Koro's shares thru me.

I suppose some will call it double dipping.

Kia ora

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Posted : 06 July, 2007 1:16 am
pono OWC
(@pono-owc)
Eminent Member

quote:


Kia ora, just thought I copy this out for all to read, from the booklet a guide to "Succession" from the Te Ture Whenua Maori Act 1993.

The Act permits the inclusion of WHANGAI in succession and gives the Court the power to determine the extent of that person's shares. The whanau may want to include whangai, but only to a limited extent, and the MLC can respect that wish. The MLC must be satisfied that whangai should be included and will seek evidence from the family about this.


kia ora,

Will this satisfied the MLC when one person or the eldest of the 8 siblings of the whanau hasn't given a consent?
I'm asking this because i can't quite figure out this system.

Whanau I know, when only 2 siblings attended the mlc for their widow mother apply succeed her husband life interest had include her whangai child together to form a whanau trust.
she thought husband have shares.
Well, the Grandparents left the inheritance all to the eldest mokopuna, this person I've mentioned was his father's parents side.

such a mind boggler

Edited by - pono on Jul 06 2007 02:09:59 AM

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Posted : 06 July, 2007 1:44 am
kiriwai
(@kiriwai)
Active Member

kia ora Pono

I hate to say it, but if both G/parents wrote out a Will and left it all to the eldest mokopuna, there is only one other thing they can do and that is to contest the will, which it sounds like they did, otherwise there would not have been the hassles they are having now, normally they/or Mum would have succeeded without any problems. It is sad that alot of our tupuna did this, some had good reasons for doing so and some were just so unresonable/selfish especially to there own siblings and most times their is nothing one can do, unless the inheritor/mokopuna feels (which he can do) that it should be divided amongst his/her whanau.

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Posted : 06 July, 2007 2:46 am
pono OWC
(@pono-owc)
Eminent Member

kia ora kiriwai

Yes, grandmother died 1991 did leave a administration Will years 1990 but cannot find grandmother's solicitor anywhere, believe he moved somewhere to wellington was paid to keep quiet(not sure who by). They(mokopuna, grandmother and solicitor) had meet before grandmother died. Then, grandfather died 1998, didn't leave no Will but he was include in the Will as the life interest.
Thats all I was told.

Hope whanau work things out forgive and move forward.

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Posted : 06 July, 2007 1:13 pm
matahuru OWC
(@matahuru-owc)
Eminent Member

Kia ora everyone

Firstly taiga my friend, I suppose its never come up before but she is a he! haha all good cuzy.

Now most of what I know has already been mentioned. Whangai can be included expecially if they are descended from the same ancestor/s that originally owned the land.

Many people whangai'ed children to other whanau of the same whakapapa. If they are not directly blood related, then it must be put in front of all beneficiaries of the land block or shares for ratification. Majority rules on this one. If 1 out of (3 or more) disagrees, the majority takes it.

In our whanau, whangai are not included if not of the same whakapapa however this applies to us only and is not typical as far as I know. We do this to save confusion for future generations that may research our land papers for whakapapa. If in the future they are included, and it just maybe, I for one will be asking that they at least be listed as whangai and the relevant whakapapa be referenced for their descendents.
hope that helps

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Posted : 06 July, 2007 6:02 pm
frontman OWC
(@frontman-owc)
Active Member

Wow, thanks for all the threads infro has been helpful. Just a update on whats happening so far. The family are now sitting down to talk and alls looking positve.

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Posted : 09 July, 2007 12:16 pm
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