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Maori Monarchy  

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Gemini G OWC
(@gemini-g-owc)
Eminent Member

If the current monarch is the maori king, then why does he flap a british flag called new zealand like the rest of us? Does he have new zealand flapping just above his head on his license, like the rest of us, or does he have his own? And if he has his own flag, should his people be flapping that same flag? Just trying to figure out, where titles like King and Queen actually fit in the maori world.

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Posted : 06 January, 2008 9:24 pm
Te Rangamahue OWC
(@te-rangamahue-owc)
Active Member

Kia Ora koe!!!

U realy dont understand the meaning of Kingitanga too Maoridom.

the King does not flap the new zealand flag he flaps his own flag which is the maori monarch coat of arms Te Paki O Matariki!!!!!.

And Tainui Waikato flap his mothers flag the kaahu.

And the history of the titles king and queen in maoridom dates back to the first king whom was chosen by maori chiefs of the motu. they had a choice of titles to give to this new leader, those choices were: Ariki taungaroa
toihaukura
Ariki o nga ariki
arikinui

now these chiefs didnt want an normal title to be given to this person so they choose the title king just like that of england.

you should actualy read and reasearch more before posting things that you could find the answers to

kia ora

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Posted : 06 January, 2008 9:47 pm
Gemini G OWC
(@gemini-g-owc)
Eminent Member

Kia ora Te Rangamahue.

Oh! And I can only assume, you are flapping the same flag as your king, and of course this is on your drivers license and/or on your passport as well. What flag are you flapping on them there identification papers? Is it Te Paki O Matariki, Te Kaahu, or New Zealand?

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Posted : 06 January, 2008 9:58 pm
Te Rangamahue OWC
(@te-rangamahue-owc)
Active Member

Well is it not obvious that i am living in New Zealand under the new zealand government under the Pakeha Queen? yes i do have a Pakeha flag on my passport and drivers license.

but im not understanding your point?

We dont fly the Pakeha flag at our maraes or when the king is present.

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Posted : 06 January, 2008 10:09 pm
Gemini G OWC
(@gemini-g-owc)
Eminent Member

A king in his own kingdom with his people should be flapping the same flag, and should be on their identification papers, or am I that naive to be thinking like that? How are Maori ever going to do the self-governance thing, flapping a british flag and not their own. New Zealand is a Flag, that's all it is, and it flaps just above your head, being the flagpole, but the ground the flagpole stands on, is something else.

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Posted : 06 January, 2008 10:28 pm
Te Rangamahue OWC
(@te-rangamahue-owc)
Active Member

You realy should learn more about why the maori monarch was established and yes you are being naive.

We realy dont have a choice flying the pakeha flag dont we? thats why the kings flag is only folowen on his maraes.

its not like the government is going to fly any maori flag at the parliament or on the parliemant or even get it printed on passports and drivers license for Maori only.

I have a fla pole at mu home but it doesnt i dont fly that crappy flag.

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Posted : 06 January, 2008 10:35 pm
Gemini G OWC
(@gemini-g-owc)
Eminent Member

Maybe your king should say something about the matter. And why don't you tell me in your own understanding why the maori monarch was established. Because, I'm not sure if you saw it on tv, but the maori queen bowed down to the pakeha queen, and the pakeha queen, dubbed your maori queen, a DAME. Now, with shit like that happening, where o where do the titles king and queen fit in the maori world.

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Posted : 06 January, 2008 10:46 pm
Taiwhakaea OWC
(@taiwhakaea-owc)
Active Member

Ae tautoko i ngo korero Te Rangamahue.

The government wont let Tainui fly the Kings flag or put it on passports.

realy this issue is not realy worth it because we all know that we have this pakeha flag all in our faces even to those whom dont want to see it

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Posted : 06 January, 2008 10:47 pm
Gemini G OWC
(@gemini-g-owc)
Eminent Member

Well you people do have rights. Are you telling me, you ain't allowed to have your flag flapping above your head on any of your identification papers? Grow some balls and challenge the current government on the matter. And I disagree with you Taiwhakaea, saying this issue is not really worth it, because it is. And if we don't fight for our rights, our younglings and theirs and theirs and theirs and theirs and theirs are forever going to have New Zealand flapping above them, forever oppressing them, forever ignoring them.

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Posted : 06 January, 2008 10:58 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

Kia ora tatou katoa,

The word "kingi" in Maori is a transliterated word deriving from the English word "king".

The word "kingi" came across at that time to be a much more natural choice than words like rangatira and ariki. This is because the role that this person would fulfill was more than that of an "ariki" (remembering that an ariki is the highest role that a person can be born into) but also one that would not trample on the mana of the ariki and rangatira throughout the island.

We must remember that at that time there was no concensus of being one people throughout Aotearoa since each iwi and its subsidiary hapu were all fiercely independant of one another. So in ancient times it wasn't safe for a Taranaki person to waltz around into Ngati Porou territory. However, curiously Pei Te Hurinui Jones notes in Nga Iwi o Tainui that approximately before 1500 circa people could travel around the island without having their intentions challenged so perhaps the people of that era were more unified its just that for a brief moment in Maori history disunity took over.

The kingitanga was a kaupapa in response to the squatters known as Pakeha in the 1800s began to arrive in large numbers and wanted to take land off of Maori. The only way to consolidate Maori land ownership at that time was to unite and have a figure head who could lead a united charge against Pakeha because the chiefs knew that "united we stand divided we fall".

Several hui around the motu were held about this matter of electing a king (thus making the system similar to that used on the fictional planet called Naboo in Star Wars). The main criteria for selection was on whakapapa, and so a motu wide search began in finding who had the appropriate whakapapa (i.e. to see which one of the chiefs could link to the most tribes on the island). There were many contenders but most if not all turned down the offer since they understood not only the burden of such a kaupapa would bring but also how they were linked genealogically.

Now Gemini, in regards to what you're saying about the beloved Te Atairangikaahu bowing to Queen Elizabeth II...

What Queen Elizabeth II did was a wise thing. She knows of the struggles that Maori are going through but because of the way the political system works now she is constrained from doing much. However, she has done what she could, and that was giving the title of dame to Te Atairangikaahu. By that single act alone she recognized the nobility within Te Atairangikaahu and made accorded her status in Pakeha society that placed her above the Queen's servants.

Also Gemini, it is polite for royals to recognize each other. Even Queen Salote, Tonga's queen, recognized Queen Elizabeth II by not sheltering herself when the rain came during a parade in London in the 1950s. By doing this, she had acknowledged that Queen Elizabeth II was indeed a queen as it would have been rude for her to act as though as if she, Queen Salote, is equal to the sovereign in the land that she visits. If a monarch goes to see another monarch in another land, generally, although they are still a monarch, they have to respect the mana of that monarch because they are on that monarch's turf.

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Posted : 06 January, 2008 11:11 pm
Gemini G OWC
(@gemini-g-owc)
Eminent Member

Kia ora Tane. Pono in the recognition part, acknowledging each other as equal, in Title only. And pono in standing down when in another land, yet still maintain Title. But, I don't see the wisdom in dubbing another who holds the same Title, with a much lesser Title, than what she already holds. Surely the Title Queen has a higher status than a Dame! Please explain the wisdom in this act, to your own understanding.

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Posted : 06 January, 2008 11:29 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

The wisdom being that Te Atairangikaahu was made more royal and held more status than any mere prime minister that has made it into office during her lifetime in the Pakeha world. The Queen already acknowledge Te Atairangikaahu's sacredness but she knew that others (like the common street monger) did not so the best way to "force" the issue is to award a title that commands respect no matter what.

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Posted : 06 January, 2008 11:42 pm
Gemini G OWC
(@gemini-g-owc)
Eminent Member

Well does the title Queen, not command enough respect? Does a Dame have more respect in the maori world than a Queen? Let this common street monger know!

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Posted : 06 January, 2008 11:52 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

It was done for Pakeha for their perception.

Not for Maori. Queen Elizabeth II wasn't thinking about what Maori were thinking of Te Atairangikaahu. She was more concerned with her Pakeha subjects in Aotearoa.

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Posted : 07 January, 2008 12:10 am
Taiwhakaea OWC
(@taiwhakaea-owc)
Active Member

Ae tika taau e Tane,
the pakeha quuen doesnt think about what maori want.

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Posted : 07 January, 2008 12:23 am
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