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Philosophy and the Esoteric  

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kuri OWC
(@kuri-owc)
Active Member

Kia ora;

I would like to suggest that a new category for the use of those who would like to discuss philosophical and existential topics.

I prefer it not be referred to as religious as that entails a certain amount of dogmatic viewpoints. This could be more in line with the sharing of personal aspects of spirituality and freedom.

The category would then be readily identifiable by those wishing to participate in such discussions without the covert co-opting of other forums.

Regards

kuri

"the smallest good deed is better than the grandest good intention"

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Posted : 19 December, 2005 10:00 pm
kuri OWC
(@kuri-owc)
Active Member

Kia ora;

"Whatungrongaro te tangata - toi te whenua."

Translation -Humanity fades the land endures..

I believe that this whakatauki concisely portrays our peoples existential philosophy.

This does not place humanity at the centre of philosophy but as a entity descended from it. Charged with the care of the land we are like butterflies that glory in our splendour for a short time.

This philosphy is at odds with the dogmatic judeo-christian philosophies that emphasises the individuals reward and redemption.

In the same way as a child sees the world only in terms of the 'me and mine', the teenager progresses to the 'us and them' and hopefully adults to the 'we and ours'.

The stress in the whakatauki on humanities place in the cycle of the earth as being transistional is quite beautiful and invokes the urge to leave this plane better than we found it, for those who come after us.

After all would you leave poison where your mokopuna eats?

Of course not, so why would you leave your mokopuna to clean up the mess of our generation...we are responsible for how we leave this world, the words we say, the actions we do and like the mist we too will fade away.

Regards

kuri
"..virtue is not knowing but doing."

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Posted : 25 December, 2005 4:01 pm
hearty nati OWC
(@hearty-nati-owc)
Eminent Member

i think that we are all responsible for cleaning this world up for our children...even though we are not all to blame for the mess.

one way that it could have been achieved was through the kyoto protocol but america doesnt want to sign it in case they are overtaken by china or russia...and then there is the fact that most americans dont actually believe in global warming...or ar in denial about it.

how selfcentered can u really be?here is a chance to save us all and america doesnt want to in case it slips into #2.

the only thing i find truly hypocritical with the protocol is the system of point selling in which countries who reach the goals set by the protocol can sell their surplus to other nations.thats all i find wrong with it.

i think that the UN should have some power to enforce the protocol...otherwise america is just going to do what it did with the iraq situation and go on its own merry way.the UN should ahve stepped up to the plate and given serious repercussions to the US for going against it but sadly failed to do so.

another issue is whaling.japan has for decades hid behind the veil of research to hunt whales and now they want more and accuse greenpeace of being ecoterrorists for standing in their way.

i find this practise so disgusting.whales are revered by maori especially from where i am from (descendant of paikea right here!).the only time they were eaten was when they were washed ashore and then the whole whale was used.

the flesh was eaten, the bones were carved and the fat was preserved.and the flesh that wasnt eaten at once was putrified and could last up to a year after the whale was gone.

japan retorts with the remark: 'NZers eat sheep and cows' well,we have over 66 million sheep in NZ alone so i doubt that they will become extinct anyday soon but youll be luck to find 66,000 of some whale species...if not all of them.

maori need to become more pro-active in environmental issues,as indigenous peoples are more attuned to the earth and all therein.

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Posted : 29 December, 2005 12:28 pm
kuri OWC
(@kuri-owc)
Active Member

Kia ora Hearty Nati;

I tautoko your thoughts on this subject. We may blame the Monolithic states who have refused to acknowledge their responsibility by refusing to participate in the Kyoto Protocol process.

Australia and the United States have taken a very nationalistic view point on the topic.

Australia claims to have not only met but reduced its carbon emission target. Like all statistics the basis of the claims need to be looked into; after all Australia has been the world leader in coal production and exports in the last year. It is reducing its reliance on old technology coal fired stations and upgrading the coal fired technologies to produce more output with less emissions. But the bulk of production has been exported to China where there are very low standards of emission technology be that fossil fuelled or various other forms of waste management. All in the race for market share and economic global supremacy.

China, Russia India and Pakistan have special development status under Kyoto, and in expressing this we are looking at the majority of the world population.

The massive populations these countries have gives them a cheap labour force and this should not be confused with unskilled, they have highly skilled workers for example Engineers who in the western world would be earning $150,000 per annum (approx), in China would be looking if they are lucky at about $150.00 per week, for longer hours and less conditions. This is also true in India and Pakistan, we would be gravely mistaken if we thought these countries were making substandard products. That was the error of the 1950-60s' "Made in Japan" sneer. The Japanese not only copied and produced cheaply but innovated and improved the quality of their product until it has become the status symbol of the affluent in technological appliances.

Australia is a natural resource exporter, and does not have the population base to engender a high skills market at a cheap rate, neither does New Zealand. Would we want to have the higher population at a lower standard of living is the question we really should ask?

At what rate, and what living and social conditions should we stock the land with humanity. What is the tipping point of that resource management problem?

There is another perspective that with female access to health education and employment the birth rate declines. It is rare that a female will marry beneath her social standing education wise, and with access to health providers at an affordable cost to her income, will not produce as many offspring, so the fewer offspring will have access to better education and so on. This is borne out by the recent Japanese birthrate which is in serious decline.

Given the rise in the Maori birthrate of recent times perhaps this explains that rise as a population indicator of access to quality education and health. Because I note that the life expectancy age has not risen with it.

Now to the Whaling issue, I agree Hearty Nati, it is not a cultural norm of our people to kill whales though it was not unheard of. In legends such desecration of our brothers of the deep was always visited with serious retribution and social disconnection of the transgressors. In the eating of beached whales this was the taking in of the wairua of our brother and makes sense to a seafaring people.

The Japanese are not alone in the hunting of whales. Norwegian and Icelandic whalers are also out there taking our maritime brothers.

Unlike the Norwegians, Icelanders and other peoples who culturally take whales as food, the Japanese atttempt to decieve by claiming scientific research. When we all know the same data can be taken without the death of the whale.

Japan began to eat whale flesh during the Second World War and during the post war reconstruction of their country. So it is not cultural.

The problem I have with the use of "culture" in the harvesting of these mammals is the technology that is used. The boats are not manpowered, the harpoon is not manpowered and the water in which they hunt is not viable unless the ships are technologically equipped to get to such latitudes.

Let them hunt without the access to such "new" innovations as diesel and outboard motors. Make the hunt fair by non exploding harpoons cast by the arm not propelled mechanically, do honour to themselves and the whale by having as much to lose as the whale has.

Yes we do eat cattle and sheep...NOW. But once the Japanese too would have been our fish, though we would have honoured them by taking the same chances in the battle as they.

My whakatauki for today reflects my thoughts on the first and second matters, except the marae is the world and we cannot escape the stink.

Regards

kuri

"Te anga karaka, te anga koura, kei kite aki marae"

"don't leave the shells of the karaka and crayfish about the place" (cos you will have to live with the stink)

ReplyQuote
Posted : 29 December, 2005 3:39 pm
hearty nati OWC
(@hearty-nati-owc)
Eminent Member

tautoko kuri, if they have the audacity to call it culture then let them pursue their cukture...in a cultural fashion by having row boats and hand thrown harpoons.if it truly is a part of their cukture then these requirements are all for the better,as it allows whake numbers to be minimally decreased.

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Posted : 30 December, 2005 10:06 am
kuri OWC
(@kuri-owc)
Active Member

Kiaora;

New Year passed in Australia with everyone drenched in sweat, markiing the close of the hottest year on record in OZ since records began back in 1861; and the fourth warmest year globally. While we sweltered across the Tasman gales howled through Aotearoa.

It would be a fool who thought that climate change is not now upon us. Is there a technological answer to this impending doom to life as we know it?

"Satirically both the United States and Australian Governments cast about themselves for answers that would justify their negative approach to the Kyoto Protocol and with smoke and mirrors give the appearance of a real concern for environmental issues.

Answer: "Lets invite some of the most happening new power house economies( net importers of fossil fuels and mineral importers) and see how we can help with the acquisition of our "new improved low emission technologies"( ways to burn fossil fuels. Now if this was a new technology that would mean there had not been another like it before, therefore it could not be improved and if it was improved that would mean there was something wrong with it and so the circular spin of the flim flam goes.)

Perhaps in the interest of the environment we could interest you in some of this lovely glowing uranium that we rip out of the ground in Kakadu with our worlds best practice new mining techniques. And of course we (the technological elite) could supply the technology and consultancy practice of our Nuclear Industry so you could become part of the "Nuclear Coalition of the Willing" with this lovely clean shiny Nuclear Power Station, you wouldn't have to emit anymore of that nasty carbon into our atmosphere thereby reducing global carbon emissions.

Geographic and Political instability? Not a problem we will have the solution to that too - in the fullness of time, that is. And thats not all; if you the selected few(India China Japan) sign up now and for a limited time only, it wont cost your governments a thing to be in the vanguard of our better than "Kyoto New Deal" on the environment. Industry Leaders like Rio Tinto and others will carry the cost of this new green face of market driven environmentalism of course we will start the ball rolling with a few financial incentives to those community minded Multi National Corporations, but over all it will be industry driven, in keeping with economic rationalism."

Now that I have vented my spleen at what appears to me a transparent marketing ploy of resources and technology, I ask these questions.

Why must we accept that vision of the world?

Does might make right?

Are governments relevant when Multi-National Corporations provide health, utilities and sub contract security enforcement personnel?

What other options are there for the global community both environmentally and economically?

Who is more guilty he who watches and comforts the perpetrator of the rape,or the rapist?

Regards

kuri

"...the best way to keep loyalty in a mans heart is to keep money in his purse..."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 14 January, 2006 4:29 pm
goyathlay OWC
(@goyathlay-owc)
New Member

Interesting stuff e hoa ma. The world could so easily be a paradise its just a shame that a few power hungry people have managed to set up systems that tie the population to a position of helplessness, or at least have us believe that we are powerless. If we could stop giving our mana away to outside authorites, and instead develop self awareness and rely upon the kaha of our wairua, then "they" would be unable to get away with this control and subsequent destruction of our precious environment. There is no need to fight them, instead just turn away and return to the simple, oneness our tipuna had with Papatuanuku. I've read about technologies that are non poluting etc so we don't need to go back to wearing piupiu, though that could be cool! I know it would take a huge shift in consiousness for most people to turn away from the things of the modern world that keep us enslaved, such as alcohol, drugs, violence etc and start exercising, eating healthy and developing spiritual awareness but its us who made the descisions to be this way, therefore we can also decide how we want the world to be. I believe that good things are instore for the earth because I believe that the point of creation is Joy, why else would life exsist? Umm..not sure how this is gonna happen though, looking at the current state of affairs, but everything must balance, that is the law of the universe, so we may have to go through some rough times yet before the "Golden Age" comes about.

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Posted : 22 January, 2006 12:53 pm
hearty nati OWC
(@hearty-nati-owc)
Eminent Member

kia ora korua

thats the way of the world now $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!

its all about making money and people dont care how they get it.i do some volunteer work at a retirement home nearby and it breaks my heart to see all the pakeha kuia and koroua who are left there to die.one lady had been there for 17 years and had only seen her whanau 3 times.she had been to hospital more times than she could count,once for more than 3 months and they just rang to see whether she was still alive.

she said she was worth a lot of money and that when she died that it all went to her sons.so i guess thats why she got her phonecall ne?

so many of them are left there to rot unseen and unburdended to the family so they can just get their cheque when they finally die.it makes me sick to my stomach and im so glad that my own kui and koro lived with me all of my life.in fact they are my real parents and i think that im all the better for it.

ki a koe e goth,i tautoko that e te tungane,we need to break free of the shackles of colonial oppression,araa the booze,smokes and drugs that continue to hold us down.

im 17,not even old empugh to legally buy alcohol or smokes and already ive decided that i dont need them.i used to go out every weekend and get so drunk that i would pass out and smoke so much that i always smelled like cigarettes.but now i see the light (lol aye kuri!!) and have done away with it all.

these things damage my ira and my mauri which affects my mana and my tapu.its poison.its all poison.and we dont need any of it.

i turned back to the way of my ancestors and havent looked back.i live my life under the principles of te aho matua and have renewed my spiritual wellbeing by using karakia to nga atua tawhito,the traditional gods.

since then i have regained a new outlook on life and have found so much inner strength and mana from my maoritanga.i can so no to all that tutae and keep my head high because HE MAORI AHAU!!

we gotta get that message out to all the rangatahi and matatahi out there that were like me,going out and drinking,smoking cigareetes and worse.theres marijuana and now theres the tiko called p thats destroying our people again.

tu kotahi ka angitu,wehe rua ka angipae

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25 January, 2006 12:31 pm
kuri OWC
(@kuri-owc)
Active Member

Kiaora Goyathalay and Hearty;

Pounds, shillings and pence, dollars and cents... the mantra of the new world order. You are so right Goyathalay and the answer is to turn back to the self, through self reliance and positive use of communication and technology we make our own communities bound by shared ideals and common goals.

Hearty as always I support your words and actions, I fell for that dreaded narcotic tobacco, still I am in its grip; but I take full responsibility for my weakness both of character at the beginning, in youthful arrogance and now with shamefull maturity. My whanau too has been touched by those other narcotics, we have had our fair share of sacrifices on the altar of false dreams.

It can be truly disheartening when we see the lack of principles and ethics that is perpetrated through out the globe and sometimes even within our own iwi, hapu and whanau...when it comes down to it the only power that counts is the power within oneself that is mana, we all start out with a lovely little trust account that our ancestors have left for us(this is not only in respect of Maori but all peoples linked in the web of life), we may choose to make deposits of sound principles and ethics by our own actions to this and the return is an increase in our own personal wealth, the kind that no one can foreclose on. Or we can choose to squander it by inappropriate actions and bad habits, just because there is a cash return or government subsidy does not make the action correct.

Sometimes our own personal knowledge of our bodies spirit can tune us into"that feeling deep down in the pit of our puku" the quiet whisper of voices unheard. This is a time to reassess our own motivations and personal ethics, before we squander "mana".

I have been lucky in life that I have been tested by various experiences and at first you may feel despair, but it is with our thoughts we create our world, so buy yourself sometime to assess this new situation and then you may find the answer. I have learned that there are no shortcuts, they all end up taking longer more complex paths, in the attempt to avoid confrontation of the self. When the hair stands up on the back of your neck, your heart pounds, your mouth becomes dry and every muscle in your body starts to quiver; be grateful you are about to learn something about yourself that you never knew before; who says you will necessarily like what you find. Fear can be the gatekeeper to knowledge, it is up to you whether you overcome it or turn back from it.

Who does it profit when we feel hopeless frustration? It profits those who believe in the power of the balance sheet! A lot of capital is gained in the promotion of Fear.

Think about it, what is depression?

How much do the pharmaceutical companies make annually just on depression?

Depression is engendered by frustration and hopelessness, when one becomes paralysed by fear of action

Depression truly is anger without the enthusisasm. Anger is not an acceptable expression of emotion, so we replace it with fear of the expression of that emotion, without actually acknowledging the truth of our first natural response.

Anger must be acknowledged, this does not mean we go about smashing heads...anger is natures response to a threat, the choice of flight or fight. So how can flight always be the right response, it can't our self knows we had two choices, sometimes we must stand our ground and fight. This does not mean we strike first or even at all, sometimes against all odds it requires the mere act of defiance to deter a threat against the self.

For even in the smallest thing the balance of the world is held... you did not see the mighty mountain, yet you brush away the grain of sand, does it necessarily mean you can brush away a mountain? No it does not but given enough time one grain at a time even the Himalayas will become a grain of sand. So why not gather your grains of sand and build your own mountain!

Regards

kuri
...laughter cannot bring back what anger has driven away.

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Posted : 25 January, 2006 5:34 pm
goyathlay OWC
(@goyathlay-owc)
New Member

Awsome korero e hoa ma! He tino pai rawa atu ki ahau ki ti kite he tangata Maori i aau whakaro! Heoi ano, kei whea era atu tangata? Ko tatou anake e tautoko ana tenei kaupapa? Lol! E Nati, 17 o tau!? Tau ke! Ko koe te rangatira o te wa heke mai nei! Kia kaha! I would love to see Maori lead this country into a future that pays more respect to Papatuanuku and a more natural, sustainable future. The ideals of the Maori can make this country awsome, more laughter, living in the moment, conservation of the whenua, whanaungatanga etc etc. All the "stuff" that money buys us should be seccondary to our aroha mo te Ao Maori, and Maori as I use it this sense means natural. Shine on e hoa ma!

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Posted : 31 January, 2006 11:30 am
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