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PURPOSE OF WHAKAPAPA  

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taiga
(@taiga)
Trusted Member

What is the true function and purpose of whakapapa? If we all derive from the same supernatural being, then are we not all connected anyway. Whakapapa a tool for the mortals...

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Posted : 12 October, 2006 2:12 pm
jessica OWC
(@jessica-owc)
Active Member

There is whakapapa for everything, everone yes, but also every living thing. A plant has a whakapapa, a rock you get the picture. It is also tikangas or cluture that for your own personal whakapapa it is very important to acknoledge all ancestors. It would be disrespectful to leave anyone out that is in tour direct line, and yes as you said we do all go back to Ranginui and papatuanuku, its just figuring out how and line you follow.

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Posted : 12 October, 2006 3:01 pm
taiga
(@taiga)
Trusted Member

Indeed thee are whakapapa for everythought of thing in this world and beyond this reality infact. Tikanga is not culture, but a part of. What if you acknowledge a particular whakapapa line which turns out to infact have discrepencies. This i have often seen throughout many whakapapa. How do u know when a whakapapa is accurate?

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Posted : 12 October, 2006 3:51 pm
skybreakr OWC
(@skybreakr-owc)
New Member

Tena Koe Taiga

I guess it's for what purpose and function you want to know your whakapapa, personal knowledge of your part in the world perhaps. we are all seeking and wanting to know for one reason or another. E tika ana to korero, we are all connected, but how, is what our whakapapa may determine.

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Posted : 12 October, 2006 4:22 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

Kia Ora taiga,

if we take a linguistics stand point and break the word whakapapa down, we actually have two morphemes, one that is a prefix and is a causative (whaka) and papa, which means 'board, flat, rock platform, etc etc'.

So the word whakapapa is a compound word, and it wouldnt be unreasonable to say that it means 'to make a layer'. This is metaphorical for what genealogy is - making layers, and, it is thought that these layers interconnect.

Well, if we take the belief that there is a (or in the case of other beliefs, some), then yes, we are all connected in one way or another. I guess genealogical research is the hobby of the voyeur who likes to know these kinds of things. Mere mortal? Unless if you believe in a being greater than yourself, then there can be no greater being than man, right? (I myself however, do believe in a supernatural being, I like to refer to the being as being a male, and call him God. Other people have other beliefs).

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Posted : 12 October, 2006 6:17 pm
taiga
(@taiga)
Trusted Member

Maybe not so much that one is greater than the other but more of the fact that through our interconnectedness we are all infact the same.

Mortal in reference to the transformation we make when we die.

Much like hierachial structure, i believe that kahui ariki are the first servants of the people and the people are reciprocators of this.

How about whakapapa used to dtermine birth right. Relationship? And why?

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Posted : 13 October, 2006 8:59 am
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

I think whakapapa is a good tool for determining birth rights because Maori society (well, the society of my hapu 😉 is stratified, and not egalitarian as say, the societies found in Samoa, Niue and Tokelau. Power is inherited (and it can also be ascribed).

Mena ka whakapono atu koe i te aria ko te mana, me nga korero e hono ana ki taua mea nei, a, katahi koe ka mohio i te whakautu ki tau uihanga rangatira - no te mea, i toku hapu, e whakapono ana matou ma te whakapapa e whiwhi ai i te ariki, i te rangatira ranei, te mana hei whakahaere hei tataki hoki i te iwi/hapu kei raro iho i a ia.

He patai taku - no whea koe? ka whia ngou tau? E ahei ana i a koe te taki i to whakapaparanga?

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Posted : 13 October, 2006 6:23 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

Hmm...katahi ano tenei whakaaro ka puta ake....

aa, kei tera tangata kei tera tangata te mana ki te whiriwhiri i ngona ake whakapono ki nga korero a koro ma a kui ma, no te mea, no nga mea nunui ake i a tatou i homai ai te mana hei whiriwhiri ake i ngo tatou ake whakapono.

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Posted : 13 October, 2006 6:26 pm
taiga
(@taiga)
Trusted Member

Ana, ko taku he kimi he rangahau he wetehia nga korero a kui ma a koro ma. Hei aha? Hei whakamarama i te ngako o nga tikanga a ratou ma.

I posed this question, with the intention of challenging normal societal beliefs. Not to trample or undermine them, but to gain higher understanding of the intention of these gifts.

Katahi ano ka marama, ahakoa ko ta te mea o te ao, kei to te tangata whakamaua tana whakaputa, whakahua i taua mea ra, tera tera te mana e nohopu ana.

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Posted : 13 October, 2006 7:04 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

ah yep kua marama...

I guess I don't challenge them because I've witnessed what happens to people when they challenge them (not saying that anything spooky has happened I just feel sad when they do some things that they come to regret later - I guess they've challenged things in such a way that they ended up hurting themselves and destroying their identity).

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Posted : 13 October, 2006 7:09 pm
taiga
(@taiga)
Trusted Member

Tera pea!
I guess its my innate nature to pose the question why? I suspect that maybe its not the actual questioning there of but rather the intent and reason why the question is posed!

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Posted : 13 October, 2006 7:12 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

well I do pose the question why but I don't verbalise it I just watch and observe and I wait for the answer to come to me.

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Posted : 13 October, 2006 7:14 pm
taiga
(@taiga)
Trusted Member

Well the verbalisation helps stimulate the mind past self thought. And i find its the only way to engage properly with a person, whom which discussion is made with.

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Posted : 13 October, 2006 7:18 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

well see I learn by very many different methods, and observation is one of them 😉 I select the best learning method for each situation

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Posted : 13 October, 2006 8:08 pm
taiga
(@taiga)
Trusted Member

Well pakipaki to you! Observation is good. But for the purpose of this kind of forum, debating works for me

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Posted : 13 October, 2006 8:29 pm
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