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RESPECT OF ELDERS!!!  

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taiga
(@taiga)
Trusted Member

Should Kaumatua be given respect because of age?

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Posted : 19 October, 2006 12:30 pm
taiga
(@taiga)
Trusted Member

Should there be a measurement of their life deeds and goodwill to humanity. What is due respect?

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Posted : 19 October, 2006 12:31 pm
taiga
(@taiga)
Trusted Member

When or is it ever valid and disrespectful to question kuia and koroua?

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Posted : 19 October, 2006 1:59 pm
kuri OWC
(@kuri-owc)
Active Member

Kia ora;

I was raised to believe that it is a term of respect given to elders, whether they are truly kaumatua though is measured by deeds, of lifelong service to the people. I remember an old kaumatua from up north, who wasn't wealthy in material terms, he didn't own a car, and lived in a raupo hut in European eyes a person of no consequence, but in the eyes of his people a real treasure, a storehouse of knowledge, and wisdom. He had shown his worth with his quiet application of labour on and off the marae, distributing the surplus of his kai harvests, working in the urupa, later directing the smooth operation of the events of the hapu. He truly was firm ground in shifting times.

A quarter of a century later however, I see many who demand the respect of kaumatua without the work, and get bloody consultancy fees on top of that while driving 4 wheel drives at the hapus' expense.

Of course, everything is always better in hindsight, probably because its getting closer to the time I will have to stick my head up over the parapet!

I believe that it is through merit that a true kaumatua is woven and that doesn't mean he/she was a doormat or hadn't lead an "interesting life"; it is through that slow application of working, sharing, and looking to a future when you will not be there to sit in the shade of a forest you planted.

kia ora
kuri

..."everyone is kneaded out of the same dough, but not baked in the same oven."

Edited by - kuri on Oct 19 2006 2:25:06 PM

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Posted : 19 October, 2006 2:22 pm
taiga
(@taiga)
Trusted Member

Indeed this is what i would agree on. I ask solely because i have many times been accused of disrespecting elders. These elders who only seem to come to the marae at the razamatazz events and then proceed to issue orders. This i get annoyed at so proceed to do the opposite. lol

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Posted : 19 October, 2006 3:34 pm
interplanetjanet
(@interplanetjanet)
Eminent Member

For me respect comes in layers-
True respect is earnt- and I value above all the type of example kuri has described so well -The humble person who puts the needs of the many before the self expecting no accolades or personal gains.
Then there is the respect of those with skills or knowledge who are in the process of learning and have the right attitude. This may be an old person , a child or anyone.
There are those I have to pay lip service to in terms of respect "those who are respected through Age rather than ability or contribution"
I respect their seniority and in terms of layers this one is the middle range.

A person who has the qualities I look for cannot be hidden behind a stroke or disfigurement. The knowledge I respect is still contained within their eyes and or demeanour. They are usually quiet and have their own power within their hands regardless of what befalls them.
There is a sense of their knowing and in being comfortable with that knowledge. They have found their own place of standing
They are the people I seek as my role models and who I chose to show genuine respect to

I have little or no respect for the "wannabes" or "try hards" as if success is motivated by self Ego then to me it lacks integrity.
This for me is the lowest tier of respect- many have great ability but the sound of their own voice kills any real power or thirst for knowledge from them

I do not fit the mould either of -"status quo",
I do not wish to, as it would demean my own integrity to do so.
I do not class myself above or beneath any of them ,I simply see myself and needs as being different.

I have more respect for the new parent who tries hard, the man who always chops the wood, the Nanny who opens her home, hearth and heart to all and the quiet Kaumatua.
The unsung hero will always be the person who gains my respect -the one who is not beneath performing a dirty task for the benefit of others.

Wisdom comes in many forms and some of the most important lessons learnt can be found hidden within the quietest observers
Some have the gift of oratory, others the gift of knowledge gained- these things I also respect
Power and control have more strength when they are harnessed and used for your own self improvement rather than to influence the lives or manipulate others

Edited by - markonijoy on Oct 19 2006 11:21:13 PM

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Posted : 19 October, 2006 11:10 pm
taiga
(@taiga)
Trusted Member

Mean!

Next question if a chief is given through birth right but does not inherently have any of those qualities that have already been said to gain respect, should they be respected because of their status even though they may not have done anything to warrant such respect other than predetermined birthright!

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Posted : 20 October, 2006 12:40 am
interplanetjanet
(@interplanetjanet)
Eminent Member

I have seen this point referred to in other posts within the Forum and from what Ive learnt from my own Whakapapa the positions of power were appointed by birth rite but others also gained powerful positions through their deeds and worthiness.

Edited by - markonijoy on Nov 25 2006 7:15:13 PM

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Posted : 20 October, 2006 2:26 am
taiga
(@taiga)
Trusted Member

I understand there are cases where power was given to those who did not inherit it through birthright. But do know that this is not a new age thing, well at least not for home. Its a belief ingrained in our kawa. Such as the rights for only the male line to speak as it derives to the gaining of Tawhaki of his knowledge baskets. I think sometimes our people make mistakes for whom the line is passed on to. Back home we very much believe in birthright. Not that i believe it to be right or wrong because sometimes i do not believe the eldest to make the best leader. It is believed to be a matter of genetics, in the blood so they'd say. Believed that the next in line would be more inclined to receive the traits of his predecessor through being the first born, and then the blood would dwindle less and less through the next children.

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Posted : 20 October, 2006 9:45 am
legaleagle OWC
(@legaleagle-owc)
Active Member

I would say absolutely and without question yes. That is what whakapapa is, that is mana.

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Posted : 20 October, 2006 2:26 pm
legaleagle OWC
(@legaleagle-owc)
Active Member

With regard to elders I have always thought that if our goal on earth is to survive than respect must be given to those who have, but it is entirely something more to survive with honour and integrity.

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Posted : 20 October, 2006 2:28 pm
taiga
(@taiga)
Trusted Member

So you mean to say that as long as you live long in this world that is a good enough reason to not disrespect?

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Posted : 20 October, 2006 6:20 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

Simple rule - respect everyone until you have a reason to disrespect them. And even then, do your best to not engage with them.

quote:


Next question if a chief is given through birth right but does not inherently have any of those qualities that have already been said to gain respect, should they be respected because of their status even though they may not have done anything to warrant such respect other than predetermined birthright!


They should be respected because of their status. Howeve, use wisdom and dont let them drag you down in their stupidity. There are processes too that allow for the other children to gain status in Maori society. Maniapoto, was a teina.

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Posted : 20 October, 2006 6:25 pm
legaleagle OWC
(@legaleagle-owc)
Active Member

hahaha at least their longevity yes!!!lol In all seriousness in all cases just consider for a moment who you wish to offend or disrespect. Ask Ms Clark who are haters and wreckers? Was her disrespect limited to one Harawira or the entire whanau? If i am not shown respect i see it as an assault on my mana and utu must happen, my mana is in a large way that of my fathers and therefore my brothers also. Is it their intention to harm my entire whanau? Did i bring this on myself and whanau? How much did i contribute... etc.
Naku iti noa

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Posted : 20 October, 2006 7:15 pm
taiga
(@taiga)
Trusted Member

Ok then. Probably not what i was really gearing at. A chief tells you to do something that you yourself feel is the wrong thing to do, so you don't do it. Then your accused of being disrespectful. My belief in Rangatira and Ariki is that their purpose is not so to order but to guide, the Ariki is the highest servant to the people. He is the great protector, the guide, the leader of his people, not the master. It becomes apparent at times that some Ariki forget this and become overwhelmed and powerstruck!

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Posted : 21 October, 2006 11:28 am
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