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Should Whakapapa Be Online?  

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huiabird OWC
(@huiabird-owc)
Active Member

Kia ora

Not sure where to post the urgent notice. Is the informations here's secure and safe especially our whakapapa.
I came across NZ web site (friend's online website) I think! Person posting about maori web site not sure the person mean this site. It says, we shouldn't be posting whanau info because any strangers, tom, dick or harry might gets a student loans using our whakapapa info.
Hope is not true and won't happens.

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Posted : 02 May, 2005 1:17 am
maoriorgnz
(@maoriorgnz)
Admin

Tena koe Huiabird,

Firstly I have changed the title of this panui and moved it to the Whakapapa Club Info section as there are members who are into whakapapa and usually visit the Whakapapa Club only.

We believe that it is a personal decision to put whakapapa online or not. A few years ago when maori.org.nz was a baby we did not consider putting in a whakapapa section as we were not aware at that time that there are those who may not know their whakapapa, but as the net and maori.org.nz has grown, we have found that there are many whanau who are searching, and to awhi we added facilities to maybe help people.

There are many sites that have info for whakapapa, including whanau sites who choose to put their whakapapa up.

Any one can read what is posted here, the information is not hidden. We are in the process of creating the facilites for Whanau Records to be placed online, so maybe you could suggest in that post that those facilites be for members only and not available to everyone. That post is [url="topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=682&FORUM_ID=30&CAT_ID=2&Topic_Title=Whanau+Records%3A+Ideas+and+Suggestions&Forum_Title=Whakapapa+Club"]here[/url]

In order to get a student loan a person needs to give their grandparents, parents and self then get it signed by the marae where the whanau is from or a kaumatua who knows the whanau. So if Tom was not Maori and filled in a fake one, he still needs to get the marae or a kaumatua saying that the parents he put down had him.

Heoi ano,
maori.org.nz Team
----------------------------------
http://www.maori.org.nz/ - the Main Maori Site on the Net

http://www.themaorimegamall.com/ - a virtual mall specialising in Maori products

http://www.maoricreations.com/ - specialising in Maori Design products - you can also create your own with our kowhaiwhai templates

http://kotitihaere.maori.org.nz/
Our Travel site

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02 May, 2005 11:08 am
poutokomanawa
(@poutokomanawa)
Trusted Member

Kia ora koutou,

You raise an interesting point Huiabird about if whakapapa should be online. Personally, I used to be of the opinion that it should only be passed on orally, as handed down to me, and I did not agree with it being available in any other form.

However, this site has made me see it in a different way now

[url="topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=209&FORUM_ID=25&CAT_ID=6&Topic_Title=Thank+you&Forum_Title=Newbie+Questions"]Here[/url] is a panui that helps to explain this.

The amount of people who are looking, and who do not have the access to those who are the keepers of the whakapapa need a place to be able to search for info and whanau.

I agree with maori.org.nz about each person's decision as what to put up. The familysearch site does not have permission from all whanau that is in there.

But here, at "our place" we make the decisions

Nau te raurau,
Naku te raurau,
Ka ora ai nga tangata!
--------------------------------
Together we will get there!
--------------------------------

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Posted : 02 May, 2005 11:28 am
huiabird OWC
(@huiabird-owc)
Active Member

kia ora koutou

I really appreciated and thank-you Admin. and poutokomanawa.
This site the best.

arohanui
huiabird

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Posted : 02 May, 2005 4:17 pm
Te Whaanau o te Whakamarurangi OWC
(@te-whaanau-o-te-whakamarurangi-owc)
New Member

I agree with poutokomanawa, handed down to those verbally, it is so easily lost when given away loosely.

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Posted : 11 December, 2005 5:10 am
kuri OWC
(@kuri-owc)
Active Member

Kiaora;

I was arrogant when I was young secure in the knowledge that my mother was immortal always there with the answers. My mother was well versed in our whakapapa reciting through the generations back to our waka and beyond.

What a resource, and it is all gone because we had that cultural cringe so common from 1950 to the late 70s. We her arrogant children knew best, most of us chose to be brown skinned pakeha. Why be pakeha, because that was the percieved power base of our "world".

Like sailors setting out on a voyage with a paper compass for our bearings we have circled round and round. Some have chosen to pass on our paper compass as the only way to navigate. Others have returned to land and asked for help of the "navigators" who remained behind us, although that is relative when in fact they are ahead of us.

Posting the signposts of whakapapa for the likes of me have been of great help in returning my eyes to the stars so that I too can show my mokopunas the way.

Kia kaha

kuri

"kua ata haere, muri tata huare"

"to start early is leisurely, but to race against time is desperate."

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Posted : 29 December, 2005 4:50 pm
Nani OWC
(@nani-owc)
Eminent Member

The Mormons have a website which shows whakapapa there. I have accessed there for whänau research. I know its sensitive but whether we like it or not the Mormons have been collecting whakapapa for decades & have made it public knowledge.

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Posted : 13 January, 2006 10:22 am
huiabird OWC
(@huiabird-owc)
Active Member

Tena koe nani
Do you have the link to mormon website?

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Posted : 13 January, 2006 12:02 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

I believe the Mormons only collect their own whakapapa relating to themselves - not anyone else.

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Posted : 13 January, 2006 1:53 pm
poutokomanawa
(@poutokomanawa)
Trusted Member

Kia ora koutou,

http://www.familysearch.org is the Mormon site - but be aware that not all information in that site is accurate...

Nau te raurau,
Naku te raurau,
Ka ora ai nga tangata!
--------------------------------
Together we will get there!
--------------------------------

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13 January, 2006 4:08 pm
Nani OWC
(@nani-owc)
Eminent Member

Kia ora Täne, The Mormon's have part of my hubby's whakapapa there which I found. His male side coming down from his great/great grandfather have never been Mormon. It happened that a whänaunga who married a Mormon was able to contribute some information since they have the research technology etc. Geneology is a strong part of the Mormon religion. Members are encouraged to research & learn about their family origins. Since it was also part of Mäori life, when the Mormon's came here to Aotearoa Mäori were attracted in their thousands.

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Posted : 17 January, 2006 4:30 pm
Michelle Hawea OWC
(@michelle-hawea-owc)
Active Member

Kia ora Huiabird and others
There are a lot of people out there that do not have the priviliges that a lot of us are given. After reading a few of these stories I can only have aroha for those who are adopted, urbanised, lost their matua, matua tipuna and whanau through death. Whakapapa is a birthright that was passed down from generation to generation. Not always in the home but at the whare wananga too. Is that not a public forum open for debate. What do you do if you have not been given that right. YOU SEEK IT!! What if the information is not handed down. It would be LOST!!! Generations of our tipunas mahi down the tubes. I would rather we talk about it to anyone whose interested their the ones that really do care. No offence to any of our mormon whanau, but i believe whakapapa is our forum to learn about one another not the Americans. Keep it up, excellent effort, teach our people what they have the right to know. If the rorohiko is the tool that gets the message through USE IT.
MOTHERS get on line and feed the whanau they are starving for the knowledge.
Michelle

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Posted : 12 May, 2006 10:07 am
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

Tena koutou,

Anei ngaku heneti e rua na runga i tenei kaupapa,

yes Michelle Hawea, you are quite right, whakapapa was common general public knowledge. However, there is certain information contained with in whakapapa that should never be made known to others outside of that descent group. Whakapapa includes more than just names - it also includes histories (all of which are local) which have been preserved and handed down. Special training in the whare wananga by tohunga was needed to help recite this whakapapa properly.

The Americans (aka the Mormons) haven't been taking our whakapapa - it has been our own taking it to them because of their religious beliefs. They couldn't care less about our whakapapa because our whakapapa is not theirs - they are merely hosting it on their website after Maori member contributions to it.

The best place to learn your whakapapa is in your own rohe at your own whare nui, through holding wananga to discuss the histories and to learn how to recite it. It's quite urbanised to just expect that the rorohiko should take place of the whare wananga.....

heoi ano, koia ngaku heneti e rua

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Posted : 12 May, 2006 10:18 am
dannydelamere OWC
(@dannydelamere-owc)
Active Member

Why should whakapapa not be online, this is an avenue that was not available or accessible for earlier generations..but it is left.. I believe to our generation and certainly to future generations to utilise at their individual discretion..For any Maori person who has become disconnected with their roots.. whanau, hapu, iwi for whatever reasons... Online via the net has to be helpful in taking the first foot-steps to finding out who you are.. I have found the accessibilty of photographs and historical write ups of my tipuna on-line absolutely wonderful and I compliment those Tauiwi and Maori organisations for sharing this information..Whakapapa online is all inclusive and like everything else.. will get different whanau members for and against for what-ever reasons. And you certainly won't get a majority.. my mother was the repository for her whanau nothing committed to paper, everything oral..guess what the bulk of it tragically lost...my dad has large volumes of his whakapapa but these books are now becoming to fragile and they are rarely read, lying enveloped in covers and boxes..having problems storing them for posterity..On-line for me is one method of preserving my whakapapa..complete with photographs..stories..you name it..and allowing it to be accessible to extended whanau memebers..I was one of those staunch individuals who believed that whakapapa was 'Tapu' and should be kept as such...Then I realised that as I was growing up there were certain individuals that possessed knowledge of whakapapa, certain individuals that should and could stand to whaikorero, do whakairo do ta moko..etc..etc and a lot of these extremely humble and sharing individuals are now in the spiritual realms..A lot of people (not all) who have the knowlege these days have tended to become quite arrogant and become consumed in their own self importance..I don't want my whakapapa.. my existence.. lost.. So I willing share it online..To those of you who disagree with me... well..Life goes on as it has for our Tipuna and their tipuna and their tipuna and the same for you and I..one day we too will exit this life and guess what I will be happy to know that I have left my whakapapa online...hopefully... with my descendants adding to it..Nau reira Tena Tatou Katoa.

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Posted : 13 May, 2006 5:20 pm
tane_ariki OWC
(@tane_ariki-owc)
Trusted Member

Tena koe D Delamere,

That's sad to hear about the loss of life in your whanau and the loss of such repository of knowledge.

I'm not 'anti-online' at all - but I feel there's a long way to go to ensuring proper security of such information. Having studied up on computers, I'll never have a complete 100% trust in them because the computer can't allow me to see who is actually accessing the information and preventing misuse of it. If I could do that, then it would be fine to just post away online.

You are quite right, that there are those who hold such knowledge that they become 'self important' and 'self serving'. The impetus is now on us to get that knowledge from them and to disseminate it in the old age tradition of wananga face to face. I just hold the idea that 'family history' is a 'family activity'. A good reason to get together I guess.

Get those books and read them.....

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Posted : 14 May, 2006 9:11 pm
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