Welcome to the Whakapapa Club Forums where you will find a wealth of information.  You are free to browse the forums, but if you wish to comment or add requests, you must register, which is quick and easy and you can even use your Facebook Login.

Once you have signed up and posted either a reply or a new post it will not appear in the forums until it has been approved – this is to stop spam from appearing and keeping our Whakapapa Club Forums relavent for Whakapapa only.

If someone helps you don’t forget to acknowlege them.

Mulihigu Fakapeleoko-Murihiku Maori Forum  

Page 1 / 2
Upokoruru OWC
Active Member

"The Murihiku language-Mulihig' being probably better expressive of its state in 1844-lives on in Watkin's vocabulary list and in may muttonbirding terms still in use,and may flourish again in the new climate of Maoritaka." (Sheila Natusch,'Southward Ho'.)

Rev.James Watkin (1809-1886) established his mission in 1840 around the Southern Waitaki region at Moeraki and that "little'hell' of Waikouiti whalers" (R.Belmer.1979.9) along the coast of Te Tai-o-Mahaanui (Otago).He had established missions in Tonga and N.S.W with his wife Hannah and was well versed in the Tongan dialect.But it soon became apparent that his mission and missive had trouble finding its evangeliacal mark due to earlier and current troubled interactions with "wicked whites" (Watkin.1840) sealers,whalers and local takata whenua which brought with it the usually vices of alcohol and fighting between the two worlds. This was further exasperated for Watkin also by a local dialectual difference by Maori who couldn't quite understand his use of te reo:
"I soon found the dialect spoken here differs materially from that of your Island,and that the help I had hoped for from your books would be anything but what I had anticipated..." (Watkin's letter to Rev.J.Buller at Kaipara,N.Island.14.Sept.1840.)
Although he made some significant converts in the way of the local ariki,the "class of 1843"(Dacker.1994),Watkin passed the Methodist mantle onto the Rev. Charles Creed from New Plymouth.
Rev.Charles Creed went on to baptise the local ariki Rakiraki further South at Maranuku in 1845 in the Karoro awa (Wilsher Bay,Kaka point) and was given the Christain name Haimona or Simon.Now Haimona Rakiraki was respected as been a pious ariki in the community amongst Maori and Pakeha alike and was also known as Lakilaki or "...Lakitap(u) with the 'u' barely breathed is regular Southern dialect-not a corruption......These names all have to do with Haimona's peity:he was averse to working on the Sabbath (Ra Tapu or Raki Tapu).Raki (Laki) is the same as northern rangi,and can mean "day" as well as "sky".Te Puoho marched south to raid Murihiku,Haimona(the lad) escaped.He said he was a Kati Mamoe."(Natusch,'Southward Ho'.)
As much as this re-occurence of the 'L' sound for an 'R' for Rakitapu or Lakitap'(u) and the desinence of the final vowel is historically verifiable, Natusch however has repeated a minor misconstrued 'written' source in her research and appended the iwi Kati mamoe to Rakiraki when in fact he was by 'kaawai'descent also of Waitaha lineage of the Kati Huirapa hapu. Although he was living amongst people of Kati Mamoe and Waitaha lineage, Rakiraki heralded from the Hawea and Wanuk'(Wanaka) regions as a young man. Natusch appears to have to confused the ariki *Te Raki from the Maitapapa kaik' further North in the Taieri area (~Henly) whom she alternatively refers by name regarding Rakiraki.Here is an oral account that became written down by "an Old Identity" although the author of the written version is unknown it featured in the Otago Witness in 17-10-1895 the year Rakiraki died.This story gives us an illustration of an earlier Maori customs such as 'topuni' meaning to cover someone or something with a highly valued cloak or mat to protect them by one's mana usually in fighting: "The story of his life is a strange .He was,it is said,when a young man,chief of a tribe of Maoris on the West Coast ,[he was born at Manuhaea between lake Hawea and Wanaka.]and one day some sailors belonging to a ship in the offing having landed on the beach,one of them strayed away from his mates, and was surrounded and captured by a band of Maoris under Lakitapu.As these were the first white men they had seen they of course looked upon them as enemies,and as according to Maori tradition it was necessary in order to ensure success against an enemy to kill the first one that fell into their hands.The Maoris wanted to kill him, and would probably have done so in spite of Lakitapu's remonstrances had he not taken his mat off and thrown it over the sailor,when according to Maori law he became invested with he mana of the chief,and was taputapu(sacred)."
There is some further casual viatical remarks offered by T.M Hocken and G.Feniwick in 'A Holiday Trip to the Clutha District,via Wilsher Bay' about "old Rakitapu": "It has,we believe, not been established that Rakitapu is identical with the boy who escaped,and his memory is now so far gone that no certainly of truth can be arrived at." Hocken surely met Rakiraki because he aquired a portion of a silcrete adze or toki from him that originally came from Wanaka and is now part of my charge at the Otago Museum which I catalogue and study in the Hocken collection,(I dig working with adzes :ayebro: ) and which Rev.Watkin's notebook containing the Southern Maori vocabulary was also later passed onto Hocken and was published in 1983 by Ray Harlow and the Linguistic society of New Zealand under the title,'A Word-List of South Island Maori.'.It is often the self proclaimed remedial notion of historiography towards 'native history' that passes on presumptions and mistakes to be inherited by later writers who usually are out of the 'stream' of oral traditions to rectify their faults.And this is no diferrently applied to the above examples when Rakiraki is a name that still resonates in oral traditions more so than written accounts. However, Haimona Rakiraki (~Lakilaki) was not the "boy" who escaped to raise the alarm when the Ngati Tama lead taua of Te Puoho was first sighted.
Although this is most likely the case simply because Rakiraki was born circa.1815 and would of been in about 20 yaers of age by 1836 and hardly a "lad",this same "oldman" that Hocken met was one of the "very intelligent" young men with Tatui whom Barnicaot noted in his diary,June 1st.1844 as assistant surveyour with Tuckett. Further,Rakiraki could or was willingly enough to speak a handful of English words,and to that extent after becoming a Christain conscientiously avoided using"bad" English picked up by other local Maori from the Whalers. However with his meeting with W.Barnicoat he was able to 'draw' a map of the Murihiku lakes region known as Wakatipu,Wanaka and Hawea which Rakiraki was intimately aquainted with.This was copied into Barnicoat's diary and shows a most peculiar arrangement to what 'we' know consider to be the correct geography of that area.Namely,that the roto 'Awia (Hawea) is accorded to be where the cartography of Wanaka is now and instead we have Wanuk' (Wanaka) for Hawea and by instances of orthography,the name Wakatipi is recorded here. To surmise that we have evidence of 'our' Mulihig' tongue at work here on paper is permissable,but I suspect that the arrangement of the lakes is perhaps due to inter-cultural-glottal misapprehension on Barnicoat's behalf.It is one thing having a basic map drawn in front of you and quite another to give it the correct nominal designation or tutakiwa when it comes to two different gestural paradigms to be lost in translation.But you never know.

*(Natusch it seems has repeated an error like Atholl Anderson in 'Te Puaho's last raid'(1986) sub-titled 'The battle of Tuturau-1836-37.',because both authors have published an old photo reported,by their account, to be Rakiraki when in fact it is other-wise. The man who features in this photograph with the 'top-hat' is unknown to my-self, but my sources suggest it is Korako Te Rehe who was the brother of the Arowheua prophet Hipa Te Maiharoa.)

Posted : 27 March, 2007 6:27 pm
Upokoruru OWC
Active Member


In this post I have copied some large extracts from 'Our Southermost Maoris'(1954),by James Herries Beattie who would during any of his spare-time visit many old Maori communities on his bicycle.
The text derives from a small chapter called 'This Language Question', which offers relevant examples and anecdotes collected through various interviews of Murihiku Maori kaumatua which also included my great-great-grandfather,'Jack' Puao Rakiraki ,at Karoro (Kaka Point): "Reflecting this legacy, Herries Beattie in the early twentieth century collected much valuable information from the people of Karoro, notng that with Jack Rakiraki, son of the chief Haimona Rakiraki, he had shared the most profound conversations about religion that he had ever shared." (B.Dacker,'Te Mamae me te Aroha'.)
Beattie, in these articles gave due 'flax-roots' provision to the on-going debate about the historical validity of a unque Murihiku reo-aa-takiwa.

But first let us first go over our Murihiku puuraraki (~alphabet).

A-B-E-F(sharp wh.)-G-H-I-K-L-M-N-O-P-R-T-U-V-W.
We can more simply 'read' this as: B(P)-F(sharp wh)-G (K,NG)-L (R)-V (W).
The inclusion of the 'D' sound is also found.The writer believes this subtle use of the 'D' is due to the 'on-rolling; effect of two 'R' sounds in a word. The first 'R' is usually pronounced as 'L', a shift due to a soft 'R', followed by the next consonant which shifts to a 'D' sound if this is close to another 'R'. E.g, Korari= KoLaDi or Parera (grey duck)= PaLeDa.
However, common-sense will tell us that this is not a result of a strict and formal over-all language, nor is it idiomatic.
It is often claimed that this peculiar dialect was attributed to the Kati Mamoe iwi.Such was the 'shibboleth' by which the Gai Tahu would identify their enemies.

'THIS LANGUAGE QUESTION' by J.Herries Beattie.

"When Rev.Jas.Watkin arrived at Waikouiti in May, 1840, he speedily found that the only available publications were North Island ones and they were practically valueless in his work. When Major Bunbury came to Otago in 1840 to obtain signatures to the Treaty of Waitangi, the official interpreter could not make himself understood until he obtained the assistance of a North Island native then visiting the south, and who was familiar with the linguistic differences. Bishop Selwyn visiting the south in 1844, but his Maori was little understood by his hearers.
Within a fortnight of his arrival, Watkn who was anexpert in the Tongan form of the Polynesian language, and who was familiar with North Island book Maori, found it was necessary to form an alphabet, and to reduce to writing "this hitherto unwritten language." He had also to compile a vocabulary and construct a grammar, and master the vocal delivery.

.....Mr.Watkin found that the southern Maori made frequent use of the letter 'L' the 'ng' of the north appeared as 'K' in the south, and the 'wh' of the north,was, amongst the southern Maoris, sharped into 'F'.....
....soon he had accumulated a collection of some 2,000 words and phrases,(Rev.M.A.Rugby Pratt.)

Oscillating consonants-The early settlers found that Ruapuke was usually pronounced Ruabuke, and Puketapu was sometimes spelt the way it was pronounced, Booketap. The word korari was pronounced koladi in some places and koradi, and I never heard it given as korari except by young Maoris trying to emulate the dictionary. It was a wise thing to leave the spelling of the Province, "Otago" the way it was pronounced by the olden Maoris, who also frequently called the two leading southern tribes Gaitahu and Gatimamoe. The siding long known as Kartigi is now "corrected" to Katiki, although it was known to the old generation as Katigi. The kowhai tree was never dignified as been pronounced as spelled, but became kowhai in some parts and goai in others. Often where standard Maori puts a "w" the free-and-easy southerner substituted a "v", as Waikava for Waikawa , Waikivi for Waikiwi, and Kavarau for Kawarau and so on.
The old settlers always said Waiv-era for Waiwera in my young days, but in earlier times the Maori called it Waivero, and if "f" had been pronounced instead of "v" the word would of been Waiwhero in standard Maori, and this is said to be the correct name. This 'wh' is a tricky item, and does not seemed to be honoured with our "wh" sound, and this lead to some strange evolutions in the ancient language, which was apparently a hotchpotch of the tongues of various migrations. Thus the word whanga can be written wanga, hanga, anga, whaka, waka, haka or aka without changing its meaning. Take the common word whare (house) . This was usually pronounced "warrie" in Otago, but at Moeraki it became fale (pronounced like our "folly".)

We have heard in the past, and no doubt will hear in the future, the scornful assertions that those who hear b,d,f,g,l and v suffer from defective hearing. If this be so there must have been thousands of people afflicted with ear trouble.
The old diehards brought up in the fixed idea that the Maori alphabet has only 14 letters, and that the form of the language is firm and constant, will rebel against his liberty, which they will regard as laxity,but it should be followed, if only for comparative philological purposes."

The writer contends this same kind of "assertion" usually levelled against a less than standard and orthodox orthography of the South Island.This standard Maori 'orthography' is not so much an inadequate expression of the southrn Maori te leo-a-iwi, leo-a-takiwa, but does NOT allow the natural phonetic morphology of that eastern-Polynesian dialect.
It is rather simple to distinguish between this dialect and early renderings at the hand of sea-men, sealers, whalers and any intrepid way-fareres to any port-o-call alike who clearly did not put into writting the vowel convention charateristic of Polynesian dialects, only to the extent of its simularity to the European ear and orthagraphical convention.This is in part due to their lack of 'education'. Regardless of one's 'education', the writing of the Maori reo was not standardised until near the end of the 19th.century.In short, the 'corruption' often cited of these non-Maori manuscripts and renderings is more due to the idiomatic interpretation of the vowels used by native speakers than that of consonants.E.g; "Wywy" for "Waewae".
There are those who have casually lent their 'informed' weight to the said topic of the Mulihigu Maori dialect in order to quash the very last vestige of 'our' mother tongue. The consequence of such an attitude only goes to further inform and galvinise the post-colonial myth of a monolithic iwi profile, a synthetic tribal auditory focus based on a national comprehension of the indigenous 'other', at the expence of other genuine Maori histories.

Edited by - Upokoruru on Mar 27 2007 9:01:32 PM

Posted : 27 March, 2007 7:03 pm
Upokoruru OWC
Active Member

Patai:What is this "Aotearoa" ,"Land of the long white cloud"?
Where does it lie?What latitude to I steer my inquiries for its discovery?What guiding texts will take me through further adventures of 'Maori-land' in-order to confirm the existence of this 'Aotearoa'?
Perhaps part of the answer is secreted in the texts of yore, at the arm-chair directories of Maori-land via Steven Percy-Smith and William Pember-Reeves.
Perhaps this 'Aotearoa' was never the collective name of the 'Maori nation'.Infact, there is nothing to support this view, this pre-Dominion-post-Colonial myth!
Why Aotearoa is not New Zealand. A lot of people will be surprised to learn that the 'Aotearoa' is no more a designation than it's application, at the very most, to the North Island,as another aternative name for Te Ika-o-Maui.

(note- remember once this is on the WWW. , it is published and copy-righted, regardless of what Jacques Derrida might construe about concepts of �textualism�.)

In the treatise 'Reclaiming the South Island's assigned name: TE WAI POUNAMU.',(2004), Keith Darroch has compiled various phrase documents that where submitted, by'Ministeral referral', for the perusal of the New Zealand Geographic Board. Te Wahi (~Vahi)Pounemu (~Pounamu)as a name was only bestowed by Gai Tahu at a much later date.
The kaupapa of Darroch's research is somewhat already formulized in its title and proposes: "This research has been compiled at the suggestion of the Hon. John Tamihere, Minister for Land Information, for consideration by the New Zealand Geographic Board, in order that they may advise the Hon. Helen Clark.whether the South Island's name Te Wai Pounamu, assigned by James Cook in 1770, in keeping with tikanga Maori, will be rediscovered and reinstated by the New Zealand Government in 2004."

Given the various accounts cited, Darroch not only concentrates on the nomination of Te Wai Pounamu , the Middle Island, but furnishes his readers with just as much intriguing instances of how the name 'Aotearoa' gradually came to the fore of our national propensities : "There are many versions of the name Aotearoa (I) a name given by Kupe's wife Kuramariotini to all or part of the North Island ,(II) a name given by Kupe's wife Hine-te-apa-rangi to the North Island, (III) the name of Kupe's canoe, (IV) the name of Mokotorea's canoe, (V) a name given by Tamatea from the Takitimu canoe (VI) a name derived from the name of the Aotea canoe, (VII) and the mainland next to Aotea-Great Barrier Island."

Can you start to see a picture unfold now? The national designation 'Aotearoa' has become just as much an amplification as the concept and term 'Tino rangatiratanga' which has enjoyed a wider symbolic and political connotation in colonial/post-colonial discourse than when it was first cited by Henry Williams in 1840. By way of 'designation' and cultural destiny, both names of Te Wai Pounamu and Aotearoa have given us actual historic locators past the symbolism of colonial historiography reaching back towards our matauranga or how 'one' inherits the disjuncture and paradigmatic disclosure of our language installed by the past.
Words, somewhat like the Human B/being, have also a form of whakapapa, it is their etymologies and how they are given evolving significance in different fans of connotations (Barth) or how they are shaped by cultural praxis. So it is no different to give them due accordance and respect to our oral history as we follow on from our tipuna in their own names and when they are con-figured by 'other' texts to recall and recite the legacy of words and sounds that are the memes and molecules of our myths. Namely, to consider, on its own terms, the designation of 'Aotearoa' to the North Island only and not as a whole enchorial construct perpetuated by the colonial pen.

'He ao, he ao!' and forth-with resounded, we are to believe, a whole leitmotif that became the 'Great New Zealand Myth'(King.2003.39) when Kupe�s wife, Hine-te-apa-rangi, excitedly gave us a symbolic prelude to European/Maori post-colonial (1907) archival notions of nation.(vide-my essay on Edward Tregear soon to be posted.).
It must be remembered that the syllables 'ao' and 'motu' is not just in reference to the 'dawn' of a New Zealand history or the perfect "island of isolation" for a new kind of phenotypic Anti-podean soul to develope. Aotearoa has even by the examen of certain nationalistic Maori movements, Kotahitanga or Kingitanga and the National Maori Congress, still has this distinction and given an assigned geo-political force to be united with its equipollent symbolic 'other', Te Wai Pounamu, in 'Huia Tangata Kotahi' where we find two strong men standing on their respective lands, Aotearoa and Te Wai Pounamu each pulling a long rope across Moana-o-Raukawa to tighten and strengthen three huia feathers in the centre.
Further, "Te Wai Pounamu" was a descriptive phrase given to those from a Northerly point of view,i.e., from those various aitanga-o-Tahu Potiki who coveted the need to material dominance by migrating South-ward and then enventually wrest control of that precious jade from the Kati Wairaki on the Western coast. One of the ancient names before then for the Southern world was "Mahaanui" or "Mahunui" which was the name of the waka when our great cultural hero Maui-tikitiki-a-Taranga with his brothers went to 'land' that great ika.Hence forth another alternative mythic name given to the South Island was of course 'Te-Waka-a-Maui' and with 'Mahaanui' which is also remembered in the name Te Tai-o-Mahaanui describing the sea on the Eastern coast from north of Dunedin up to Banks Peninsula, we have the deeply rooted enchorial ontology of our language from those who, in the original sense of the word, are 'takata whenua'.

"Toi te kupu,Toi te mana,Toi te whenua."

You may be asking your-self by now, "why does he have 'Aotearoa'as a designation, a place of origin, under his/her user name then???"

Does 'Maori.org.nz provide for anything more precise than what I have already submitted and out-lined in the above posts?Kao.
I would rather have 'Te Vahi Pounamu' as my country-o-origin.

Edited by - Upokoruru on Apr 03 2007 4:35:49 PM

Posted : 30 March, 2007 11:19 pm
Upokoruru OWC
Active Member

"Watkin's mission bokks were in the Nga Puhi dialect which had been adopted by Marsden's missionaries as standard Maori. It was hardly intelligible to Ngai Tahu of Waikouaiti, who spoke southern Maori laced with terms and expressions adopted from European whalers and seafarers. "It will be necessary to begin afresh," noted Watkin in his journal, "and form the alphabet and write this hitherto unwritten langauge". He was a good linguist, and within a week wuth the assistance of the local fighting-chief Haereroa he had complied a list of nearly 400 Southern Dialect words and phrases, which he continued to add to. With much labour he prepared a catechism in Southern Maori and sent it to the Hokianga Methodist mission for printing. He was to wait until December 1841 before receiving the printed copies. Meanwhile he began preaching in English at Jones's farming settlement, and recorded his impressions in his journal-" A considerable number of Natives were present to witness the karakiabora (the English mode of worship). Very attentive, though they could not understand anything that was said"
(Harry.C. Evison, 'Te Wai Pounamu'-p.153)

Some Maori also picked up a lot of "bad English".However, this habit soon found disfavour in the newly converted Maori. The Gai Tahu upoko-aliki, Tuavaiki was commonly referred to by Pakeha and Maori alike as "Bloody Jack" on account of his use of English expletives.

The Rev.James Watkin's "Journal" was later published by Dr.R.Harlow and called "A word list of South Island Maori' (1987).
about the same time in 1840 that Rev.Watkin founded his Methodist mission in Waikouaiti (~present day Karitane), Major Thomas Bunbury was given the mission to sail to the "Middle Island' (Te Vahi punamu)to secure the "signatures" of those chiefs for the Treaty of Waitangi.
Hobson especially required Bunbury to receive the signature of Ngati Toarangatira ariki, Te Rauparaha, or "Raubala" as sometimes rendered by S.Island Maori,which would confirm the 'legitimate' annexation of the South Island through his authority and by Crown recognition. After-all, Ngati Toa and others claimed to the British that the South Island Maori were nothing but "savages"!From this, the British could simply claim by 'right of discovery', or the old 'terra nullius' trick , although this form of Latin was never used then , only in the legal parlance of the 20th.Century.
Bunbury went on the HMS 'Herald' in 1840 with Edward Marsh Willimas as an official interpreter. Bunbury also employed a man called "William Stewart" who had been a sealer and speculator at Port Pegasus, Stewart Is.or Lakiula many years previous.
The Gai Tahu chiefs were greeted in the "southern dialect" at Onuku by William Stewart before the formal proceedings of signing the Treaty document got under way.
After the 'Herald' called into Ruabuke (~Ruapuke Is.),Bunbury hastedly went ashore with Stewart to meet the local aliki; "At Otakou Heads on June 13th. adverse winds prevented the "Herald" from entering the harbour. A gun was fired to attract attention, and a boat was sent in with Bunbury and Stewart. Bunbury by this time was RELYING MORE ON STEWART THAN ON WILLIAMS IN HIS DEALINGS WITH THE MAORI CHIEFS, BECAUSE HE KNEW THEIR LANGUAGE BETTER AND HAD GREATER LOCAL EXPERIENCE."

Edited by - Upokoruru on Apr 05 2007 8:32:28 PM

Posted : 05 April, 2007 7:17 pm
Upokoruru OWC
Active Member

"Rakaihaitu.Ko Rakaihaitu tenei korero, no te mea koia te takata tuatahi mai ki tenei motu, o tira ki te Waipounamu me Aotearoa. Ko te ikoa o tona waka ko Uruao. Tona takata o ruka ko te Rakihouia. Tona iwi ko Kati Waitaha."

(Te Mamaru tradition collected S.Percy-Smith, J.P.S-vol.3-p.14)

Posted : 11 April, 2007 5:35 pm
Upokoruru OWC
Active Member

"The most significant archaeological work in the period to the 1950s came from Roger Duff. Duff was among the earliest of all Pacific archaeologists to reject the strictures of diffusionism, and so it was easier for him to deny the Moriori myth and to accept that changes in material culture from the time of earliest human settlement in New Zealand until Western contact resulted from 'local' enviroment-in situ change that did not necessarily require input from new arrivals."
(K.R.Howe, 'The quest for origins'-p.172)
-Thus there is a 'Moa-Hunter' stratum followed by a later "pre-European Maori culture".However, Duff considers the Moa-hunter period to be "ancestral" to the later Maori culture.
Although we can view the introduction of different artifacts-tool kits into the South Island, some Moa-Hunter artifacts still persisted upto the 18th.Century. Duff ckaims that the 'Murihiku' culture region extended upto the Waitaki Valley from the 'deep-south'. Some Kai Tahu considered that Murihiku was all the territories South of the Banks Peninsula-Horomaka, since this represented the frontier of their conquests.

-I was having a wee korero with the author Bill Dacker a while go who pointed out the recent publicaion of 'Murihiku:the Southland Story' which he contributed a chapter manily pertaining to Maori history.He writes:"Murihiku is the name for the area south of the Waitaki River, apart from Rakiura (Stewart Island).This is an area greater than the province of Southland.The 'Southland' of Maori is where Murihiku, Rakiura and the province of Southland

Edited by - Upokoruru on Apr 26 2007 10:29:01 PM

Posted : 25 April, 2007 6:50 pm
Upokoruru OWC
Active Member

In between these territories, it seems that the hapu of Gai Tutekawa held sway.To the West in the 'lakes regions' of the Waitaki Valley lay the bastion of the Kati Mamoe.The Gai Tutekawa were also constituted by a strong Kati Mamoe element, but appear to have links with Ngati Kahungunu through Tutekawa and his sons-in-law, Tupuku and Utakahore.There was also Tutekawa's descent from Porouraki's son, Tawiri-o-te-raki and with the Kati Hawea (Waitaha/Kati Mamoe).
The Gai Tahu hapu, Gai Tuahuriri resprented by Turakautahi and his brother Moki, were worried that Tutekawa's son, Te Rakitamau, might form an alliance with the Kati Mamoe inland (probably at lake Ohau).This, I believe is alluded to in Moki's warning to Te Rakitamau which Rawiri Te Maire Tau elaborates upon:
"kaikai a waro i
ki te mahi aruhe
Te Whao tea ka ora
Te Whao uri ka mate
Te uri kai ra waho ka ora
Te uri ka ra roto ka mate.

The first line is obvious enough, as Moki orders Te Rakitamau to Kaiapoi (Kaikai a Waro) to work the fern root.(Rakitamau ignored Moki's imperative, instead he lead his own taua of his sons across the alps to get pounamu from the Kati Wairaki-which he succeeded). However, McEwen has CONFUSED THE FIRST Two LINES WITH THE THIRD AND FOURTH, WHERE MOKI ORDERS RAKITAUMAU to work the fernroot at Kaiapoi pa, in preparation for the Kaiapoi chiefs. It is more likely that Whao is another term for 'hao', an eel often taken at Waikakahi and Taumutu, where Tutekawa and Rakitamau lived.The 'Whao tea' refers to the eel just before it prepares to migrate from the estuary out into the sea. Ngai Tahu as well as Ngati Mamoe lived at Waikakahi and taumutu, because the eel was captured during its attempt to leave the waters of Wairewa and waihora. The silver belly eel was the result of living on the shingle lake beds of Wairewa and Waihora.The silver-bellied eel si the eel that lives, due to the fact it cannot be fished after it has left for the sea.It lives because it is a 'raa waho', an outsider.
Alternatively , 'Te Whao uri' is the dark green-bellied eel which occupies the inland creeks and lakes. Because these eels, particulary the larger inland eels, become land locked, they do not migrate to sea.The result is that they are always potential food for Maori."
(Tau,'Nga pikituroa o Ngai Tahu'-p.100)

-Rawiri Te Maire Tau offers various interpretaions of the intended symbolism of Moki's "warning" which are all just as valid, but I believe that Gai Tahu's main concern after killing Tutekawa, was that his hapu would join forces with the inland Kati Mamoe, the "whao uri", and threaten Gai Tahu's newly won position at Kaiapoi. It is not clear what kind of relationship that the Gai Tutekawa had with the Kati Mamoe of the Otago rohe, but Tutekawa's cousin Tukiauau shared a common ancestry with Ngati Porou and Kati Mamoe had only recently been obliged to abandon his pa at Kaikoura after relations with the migrant Gai Tahu became sour.
The 'children' of Tutekawa married into the Waitaha. His grandson, Te Veka however went to Wanaka and ended up killing the local ariki, te Potikitautahi, who is believed to be his "uncle". However, there has been some misconception about this tradition over the years;namely, that Te Veka went to Wanaka to aquire a Waitaha bride for his father, Te Rakitamau.But, Te Veka's mother was from Waitaha, described as the chieftainess at Kaiapoi. Thus this was not a matter of securing title by 'ancient lines'-unless Te Veka intended to settle further South through inter-marriage. Te Veka's wife was Hinetarahaka.Her affiliations point to a woman of that name, also rendered as "Hinetara" of Rakaiparemo (no Kati Mamoe) and Hitekura (no Waitaha)and who was the wife of Takotomahu the father of Te Kairere, the ariki at lake Ohau.The writer comes down both lines of Hinetarahaka through both marriages.
Te Veka would of aquired Hinetarahaka through the Kati Mamoe at Ohau.
Since there is no tradition of Te Veka fighting the Ohau Kati Mamoe, then he might of formed a relationship by peaceful inter-marriage either before or after he pressed his claims at Wanaka.
I have placed these historical events circa.1715 A.D.
Te Rakitamau and te Veka's descendants were the chiefs within the Waitaki river region.The Gai Tahu hapu of Huirapa con-joined with Tutekawa's great-grandson, Takaoteraki, who married two sisters of Kati Huirapa called Te Ruawhare and Hana (~Kohana). Their brother Wahakai formed the whakatutane or male line from his father Te Ariki (no Kati Huirapa).It is through this figure, Te Ariki, we can see that the 'separation" of the Gai Tahu of the Canterbury-Waitaha region which first brought the Kati Huirapa to Arowhenua. From Wahakai his son, Whakaririhau descends Te Rehe the ariki at Arowhenua.Te Rehe was also the father of the famous prophet-tohuka, Hipa Te Maiharoa.
Takaoteraki's own grandson, Te Pananehu was the ariki at the Waitaki mouth.His rohe extended far inland to lakes Ohau, Hawea, Wanaka and as far as Tiora Patea of the Haast area on the West-Coast. Thus te Pananehu's sons, all the local ariki at Hawea and Wanaka, were Te Raki (Manuhaea-the 'Split bird' kaik-at the Neck between Wanaka and lake Hawea), Te Kapa (Hawea) and Te Leko (at Waiariki-Stevenson's Arm -lake Wanaka).

Edited by - Upokoruru on Apr 27 2007 12:45:11 PM

Posted : 25 April, 2007 7:55 pm
superbee OWC
Active Member

Kia ora omniscient Upokoruru,

Take the common word whare (house) . This was usually pronounced "warrie" in Otago, but at Moeraki it became fale (pronounced like our "folly".)
whare is the maori word for house.
fale is the samoan word for house.
So the answer to your ancient language/iwi is self evident. All you need to do to confirm this, is start digging at the old sites and when you find a pair of stone jandals, you have the answer!

Posted : 26 April, 2007 5:51 pm
tane_ariki OWC
Trusted Member

As far as language reconstruction goes, I will talk about the north island dialects of New Zealand Maori, making general conclusions that will help put the south island dialect(s) in better perspective with the rest of Polynesia.

Proto-Polynesian (PPN) has had the following consonants and vowels reconstructed -

*f, *h, *k, *l, *m, *n, *p, *r, *s, *t, *w, *?, *ng (glottal stop)

*a, *e, *i, *o, *u (which can be pronunced short or long).

From Proto-Polynesian we get the first stage split between Tongan (and its offspring, Niuean), and the rest of the family. They merge PPN *s and *h, transform *w into v, and transform *r into 0. For example -

PPN *hingoa = name
TON hingoa
PPN *rua = two
PPN *sa'ele = to walk
TON ha'ele
PPN *waka = canoe
TON vaka

Proto-Nuclear Polynesian (PNP) makes the following sound changes -
PPN *h -> PNP 0
PPN *r, *l -> *l (however whether it is a l sound is debatable, we are using l to stand for liquid)

From here, another split occurs between the Samoic Outlier and Eastern Polynesian.

Proto-Eastern Polynesian we use *r for *l, however, whether it was a r sound is questionable.

Proto-Eastern Polynesian breaks into two sub-groups - the split occuring with the Rapa Nui language being an isolate, the other group being Proto-Central Eastern Polynesian (PCE) containing all Eastern Polynesian languages. A regular development in PCE is the loss of the PPN *? glottal stop.

At PCE we get two splits - between Tahitic and Marquesic. In the Marquesic group we find Hawaiian. A distinguishing feature of the Marquesic language is that it is neither l nor r - it instead replaces the liquid consonant with a glottal stop.

In the Tahitic group we find the following -
Cook Islands Maori
New Zealand Maori

Proto-Tahitic the following consonants have been reconstructed -

*f, *k, *m, *n, *p, *r, *s, *t, *w, *ng

New Zealand Maori, Tahitian and Tuamotuan share sound innovations unique to them. There are sound innovations that New Zealand Maori shares with Moriori however because of the general lack of understanding of the language I will refrain to comment on it here.

Tahitian, NZ Maori and Tuamotuan share the feature of changing PCE *f -> h before back vowels (o and u) or in the middle of a word. For example -

PCE *tafe - to flow
MAO tahe
TAH tahe

PCE *foki
MAO hoki
TAH ho'i
TUA hoki

PCE *fofota - squeeze tight
MAO hohota - squeeze close, to persist
TAH hohota - cough
TUA hohota - cough

PCE *fua - fruit
MAO hua
TAH hua

Another sound change from PCE is *faf sequences = *waf

PEP *fafine - female
PCE *wafine
MAO wahine
TAH vahine
TUA vahine

(an interesting note here, is that Moriori has 'whine' i.e. fine. The reason for this may have simply been that the first vowel sequence *wa was dropped, thus preserving *fine and preventing the *f to under go any sound change).

TAH, MAO and TUA also all make the regular sound change of PCE *s to h. For example

PCE *songi - to salute
MAO hongi
TAH ho'i
TUA hongi

PCE *sokotasi - one
MAO kotahi
TAH tahi
TUA tahi

PCE *sau - power and authority
MAO hau
TAH hau

The language spoken on the North Island shares close affinities with Tahitian, Tuamotuan and the other members in the group. In terms of orthography, the only consonant that looks out of place is the 'wh' however the 'wh' is used consistently enough to warrant it to symbolise the 'f' inherited from Proto-Tahitic.

The Maori spoken on the North Island is not too removed from the other Maori languages spoken in the islands and is in fact quite conservative considering that as a whole it has not changed any consonants into a glottal stop, or transformed w into v.

It is clear that the language brought by the people to the north island is Eastern Polynesian, and definately a conservative one at that in sound. While the layman may try to say that v or l is older than r or w, anyone with any degree of knowledge of proto-Polynesian word construction knows that such a suggestion is proposterous since l and r were both present in Proto-Polynesian, and v is the modern form of w.

When comparing Polynesian languages to try and derive a proto-form, it is important to look at all cognates in every single one of the daughter languages and to also be prepared to look outside of the Polynesian family tree to try and find possible clues as to what the original word form may have been.

The Samoan language is not the ancestral form of NZ Maori, because there is no evidence to suggest NZ Maori formed out of Samoan, or any of the Eastern Polynesian languages. Rather, the evidence suggests that the Eastern Polynesian languages and the Samoic languages parted ways about two thousand years ago with minimal contact between both groups of speakers.

Posted : 27 April, 2007 2:52 am
moa OWC
Active Member


Rather, the evidence suggests that the Eastern Polynesian languages and the Samoic languages parted ways about two thousand years ago with minimal contact between both groups of speakers.

That's wrong. The people of Samoa conquered Hawai'i(who speak a eastern polynesian language) ~1000ad.
Samoa has also had significant contact with Rarotonga and the Society islands.(who speak eastern polynesian languages)

Posted : 27 April, 2007 4:58 am
tane_ariki OWC
Trusted Member

I said the evidence suggests. The reality can be something different.

Provided that there was always continuous contact with the Samoan language then, it would appear to me, that the Samoan language has had no significant impact on any Eastern Polynesian language.

The Hawaiian language has two strata - one that is Marquesic and one that is Tahitic. There is no Samoan language influence on the language, unless, if we are to assume, that it would be archaic Samoan, in which case, the Samoan of today is completely different from the archaic Samoan of 1000 AD. I find that unlikely and perhaps even insulting to suggest.

So while there may have been contact (and the evidence does say minimal contact) and even a take over (in the case of Hawai'i), the Samoan language has had little to no impact on any Eastern Polynesian language.

Posted : 27 April, 2007 5:48 pm
tane_ariki OWC
Trusted Member

In fact, language exchanges are never one way - who is to say that Eastern Polynesian languages have not influenced the Samoan language?

Posted : 27 April, 2007 5:48 pm
moa OWC
Active Member


I said the evidence suggests. The reality can be something different.

Well then your evidence doesn't say much ehoa.


The Hawaiian language has two strata - one that is Marquesic and one that is Tahitic. There is no Samoan language influence on the language, unless, if we are to assume, that it would be archaic Samoan, in which case, the Samoan of today is completely different from the archaic Samoan of 1000 AD. I find that unlikely and perhaps even insulting to suggest.

And where do you think Tahitians and Marquesans came from? To say that the Samoan language had no influence on them is laughable. And of course the Samoan language changed some...Samoa was occupied by the Togafiti people for some 300-400years.

Edited by - moa on Apr 28 2007 07:18:21 AM

Posted : 28 April, 2007 6:45 am
tane_ariki OWC
Trusted Member


Well then your evidence doesn't say much ehoa.

I'm trying to be diplomatic. btw it's spelt e hoa (when a friend was trying to teach me he wrote up some things in Māori and invited me to write up synonyms for what he had written. The first thing I did was correct his spelling by adding macrons).


And where do you think Tahitians and Marquesans came from? To say that the Samoan language had no influence on them is laughable. And of course the Samoan language changed some...Samoa was occupied by the Togafiti people for some 300-400years.

Well, the current accepted linguistic evidence suggests that Eastern Polynesian developed out of Nuclear Polynesian with its contemporary Samoic Outlier.

No doubt that Samoan has changed, as all of the daughter languages of the different subgroups of Nuclear Polynesian. However, even when we reconstruct vocabulary, you can not tell whether it is influence from archaic Samoan because archaic Samoan would have been like other proto-Central Eastern Polynesian languages in that -

te is the definite article (not le)
thus in archaic Samoan we can reconstruct the following -

*te (the), *tōku (lo'u), *tāku (la'u) etc.

Archaic Samoan would have had the following consonants -

*f, *k, *l, *m, *n, *p, *s, *t, *w, *ng (which is the same as g in modern Samoan), *? (inherited from Proto-Polynesian, however, I am tentative about this)

From archaic Samoan to modern Samoan we get the following sound changes

*? - 0 (PPN glottal stop disappears)
*k -> ? (glottal stop)
*t -> k (informal vernacular)
*w -> v (a common sound change, and not a major issue)
*n -> n ~ g (informal vernacular)

Now, are these sound changes due to the Togafiti people? I would say yes it is not in that Samoan took on extra features of the language of the Togafiti but rather I would suspect an attempt was made to differentiate so that both languages were clearly different in sound (but not too much in vocabulary).

So, has the Samoan language itself influenced Eastern Polynesian languages? No, because the Samoan language as we know it today, and even its archaic form have had little influence. We can testify to this because of the amount of cognates found between Eastern Polynesian languages and Tongic languages (Tongan and Niuean). In fact, in lexical similarity, New Zealand Māori has 63% lexical similarity with Tongan, as opposed to its 58% with Samoan. Those percentages don't say much in terms of whether New Zealand Māori were closer to one island group or another, however, it does suggest that New Zealand Māori has been conservative in vocabulary since Proto-Polynesian.

Posted : 28 April, 2007 11:09 am
moa OWC
Active Member


Rather, the evidence suggests that the Eastern Polynesian languages and the Samoic languages parted ways about two thousand years ago with minimal contact between both groups of speakers.

That's wrong! Very misleading to those people who don't know any better.


I said the evidence suggests. The reality can be something different.

Well then your evidence doesn't say much e hoa. More specifically your linguistic evidence.


So, has the Samoan language itself influenced Eastern Polynesian languages? No, because the Samoan language as we know it today, and even its archaic form have had little influence.

Maybe it's your linguistic academic labels that I have a problem with. But it's laughable to say the Samoan language did not influence eastern polynesian languages. Considering many eastern polynesians came from Samoa.
And linguistic reconstruction of archaic Samoan is hypothetical. Same with Proto-Polynesian. The truth is linguists do not know and will never know the Samoan language of thousands of years ago. Unless you have a time machine? lol


taneariki said: "I said the evidence suggests. The reality can be something different. "

I don't feel like repeating myself over and over so this will be my last post on this subject.
Peace out e hoa

Edited by - moa on Apr 29 2007 08:08:05 AM

Posted : 29 April, 2007 5:38 am
Page 1 / 2